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Discussion Starter #1
newbie.
planning first build exclusively for HT use. low budget and WAF is in play for size as well.

planning something on the order of 4-6 ft^3 (and that might be pushing the WAF), ported with an inexpensive sub. Have already ordered a BASH 300 Amp.

Top candidates for subs are CSS trio and TC sounds epic 12. About same price. Model somewhat similarly in winISD...CSS a bit flatter, TC a bit higher SPL.

I'm wondering if room gain would flatten the low end dip of the TC relative to CSS, and if I might expect better sound quality / lower distortion from the TC sounds? have reviewed a number of posts on each...thoughts / experience?

expect both will be leaps and bounds better than current HTIB junk we have.
 

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Try Baffle Diffraction and Boundary Simulator to take a stab at what your room gain might actually look like. I'd guess it's most accurate for conventional (rectangular, flat ceiling) rooms. I have used it and found it to match up pretty close with my measured in-room response. If you use the Response Modeller spreadsheet also, you can sum otgether the driver's modelled response and the room response.

I haven't personally used the TC or the CSS, but I would suspect that the TC might have lower distortion. That is pure speculation though. Both look to be solid performers, and your volume range is plenty for a decent 12" driver to shine.


expect both will be leaps and bounds better than current HTIB junk we have.
You got that right.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
THANKS!

quickly downloaded....easy to use. seems like I might expect as much as 5db gain at 20hz, depending on location....

might need to think about quality of sound a bit more....don't think I can go wrong between these two options...
 

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There are many variables that are involved with room gain. Adding EQ or using Audyssey can help the lowend.

From what I have gathered, distortion will not be an audible difference between the two and using 300 watts in similar boxes and tunings. Both are going to need a High Pass filter. And after adding Hpas filters to both of them the TC is about the same on low end.


The TC has a Hpas at 14hz 2nd order and the Trio has a Hpas at 16hz 2nd order. All with 300 watts input. You can use a steeper Hpas if wanted.
 

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The peakiness of the TC is likely due to voice coil inductance. With the BASH amp's factory HPF, either sub will be well within the safe zone with just 300W.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks for the replies....

the BASH comes with a High Pass at 17.7, so did my modeling with that...with similar results to those posted...a bit flatter with the CSS, and a bit of a shelf in the low 20s with the TC. Appreciate the thoughts on sound quality....

maybe I should just toss a coin?

Was also looking at the IXL-15, which pushes the budget a bit, but would give higher output across the board as well......HHHMMMM
 

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I would flip a coin, both would be great subs. Or just go off whichever is cheaper, or whichever you like the looks of better :D
 

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I'd suggest the Trio12 in 4.3cf per this design (post #3):
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1021610

This is an old Kevin Haskins - Exodus Audio design for the Shiva X that is easy to build and works well with many 12" subs and 200-300w. Be sure to use a 4" precision port kit (big flare on both ends, available from PE). The kit works out to just the right length without cutting the tube, gives you about a 20hz tune.

"I'm wondering if room gain would flatten the low end dip of the TC relative to CSS"

The 18.7hz HPF in the BASH amp has a Q of 1.0 which will give you a very slight boost in the low to mid 20s. You can model it in WinISD by using the SOS choice for the HPF and plugging in 18.7hz and Q=1. It will give you a fairly flat result with the Epic and a slight boost with the Trio12 that you will probably like. I built two similar to this (used Oaudio drivers) for a very large room and was quite pleased for the size and money spent.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for the link. Thats right about what I'm aiming at, though was looking at slot ports, in part for appearance. Working with my wife on location, which will in part determine shape and finish desired.....we have lots of natural light wood and I'm thinking of birch with a polyurethane finish, especially if out in public view rather than behindbthe screen.....
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Have looked at that.....would allow a slightly smaller overall size (+1 on the WAF). Has more visible drivers (- at least 1 on WAF).

Not sure how to do the PR in win ISD, but looks like a steeper roll-off in the CSS info sheet....that seen right?

I figured the above calculus favored a ported design, but that's still open for household discussion.
 

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Here's a link to an AES 12" slot port design I considered before I built mine:
http://www.aespeakers.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1611

The proportions of this slot port box might or might not work for you. The problem with making a "pretty" slot port is that it tends to be too thin (less than 2" and the risk of noise goes up) or gets long in a hurry making the box deep and / or requiring a turn. A lot of people would slam this design for being too narrow a port, and 300w might be pushing it and asking for noise.

When you can do it with a 17" long single flare port it just takes away all of the potential gotchas and makes it easy and fool proof (up to 250 or 300w anyway). If you flush mount the port flare it looks really clean and a lot like an SVS sub, or just put a grille over the whole front and forget about it.

The PR kit is also a good thought - and even smaller, although it sounds like you already have the amp. If you go that way I think you're supposed to change the resistors in the high pass filter section (CSS does that by default if you order the package).

Good luck!
 
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