Home Theater Forum and Systems banner

1 - 20 of 189 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,431 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Danley Sound Labs (DSL) will soon be releasing a tapped horn (TH) subwoofer kit for home theater purposes that will also be available as a finished product. I will be receiving one of the first 2 guinea pig kits that are being sent out. The other is going to fellow bass addict and HTS member Brandon Nash. This is the result of a process that started about 7 months ago.

At the GTG http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/diy-subwoofers/17369-another-subwoofer-gtg-southern-style.html that Brandon hosted earlier this year DSL's Ivan B. graciously brought a few of their cabinets for us to check out, of which one in particular really impressed the group. The TH50. This led to a lot of talk about it on various forums. A short while later Brandon and I were contacted by Tom asking for some input for this kit project. A few impromptu polls, a great many email discussions, design work by Tom D. and saw dust at DSL have resulted in a green lighted project and yet another project for me:sweat:. On to the details...

DSL specializes in TH's and very high output, high efficiency speakers that still sound very good. Most of these end up being quite large for this reason. This is no exception. It was decided that a useful lower limit of about 15hz with response up to 100hz or so would be a good goal to shoot for and that the output should be a LOT. A slowly rolled off low end extension was a goal as well so that it would compliment typical room gain. It was also decided that the best form factor would be similar to the DSL THSpud which is large in 2 dimensions and small in one so that it can be placed up against a wall, behind a screen, or under a couch and not project out into the room very far. These will be able to be stacked up 2 high under a 7.5 foot ceiling and you can make a block of 4 in a 10ft wide, 7ft high and 16" deep wall for crazy behind the screen action.

The cab will be 60"x42"x16" with a side mounted horn mouth in the corner. The driver compliment will be 2 12" drivers similar to the Eminence Lab12 (another DSL design), but significantly upgraded with 3" vc's, more power handling and extended xmax of 15mm. Other drivers may be a good match for the enclosure loading and DSL is supposed to generate a list of these after testing in the future. The enclosure is made from very high quality 13ply baltic birch that will be fully CNC'd, the screw holes will be pre-drilled and all joints will be rabbited and dado'd. The weight will likely be around 250 or 300lbs when finished. The kit will include the cut wood flat pack, basic instructions for assembly and the drivers. Simply construct the enclosure, finish, add an amp and have fun. The price is not set yet but it has been mentioned as possibly coming in under $1000 for this kit. A kit without the drivers should be available, as will a finished one, and possibly a finished one with a built in plate amp. Pricing is still TBD on all.

I've attached a preliminary response graph of the prototype. It is an outdoor measurement at 1w (1.4v) and 1 meter distance. Tom intended to get a low corner of 14hz but it ended up at 11hz apparently. As you can see the response drops some 20db from 100hz down to 11hz, but the efficiency at 11hz is still about 90db, which is very good. This rises to about 95db at 18hz, 100db at 25hz and stays in that range before rising to 105-110db between 50-100hz. the power handling has yet to be determined in practice but it'll likely be about 1000w/ 2000w program. Tom says that the modeling indicates that driver xmax should be first reached at 16hz with about 1kw input into the driver pair. If so this should result in nasty in room output levels. The impedance will be 4ohm nominal with drops to the 2-3ohm range in some spots.

That's all of the info that I have right now. The DSL team is supposed to do further testing on the prototypes and will release info as it becomes available. As soon as I get the kit I'll be starting the build in this thread and updating with pictures. I'll be running it through the wringer, testing it and comparing it against my other subs when I get it done. Should be fun. :R









DTS-10 prototype FR2.JPG

DTS10%20impedance.jpg

DTS-10 kit.jpg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,026 Posts
It sounds like a great project. Do you have parameters on what Tom is using for the drivers? I was going to do a horn loaded Tempest build for kicks.

Kevin Haskins
Exodus Audio
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,431 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Hey Kevin.

I don't have driver parameters yet. I'll see if I can get them and if nothing else I can run them through my woofertester unit. I've modeled some of your drivers in TH's, but I couldn't get anything that looked do-able. I didn't do the newest V2 Tempest though. Standard horns may be another matter but both are rather finicky. It'd be great if it turned out that Shiva X's worked in this thing. I believe that the drivers have the standard 12 spoke frame, so it'd be a drop in as long as the motors clear.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,374 Posts
Looks like a great idea. Cant wait for some pic's.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
361 Posts
I am waiting with great anticipation on this thing. Ivan beaver and mike heddon both of dsl are going to take a couple of these home with them for some punishment tests. I believe mike is carrying home a pair of th50's for close comparisons. Between the guys at danley and myself and ricci we will really be doing some serious testing on these. Ricci will probably do more scientific testing and I will do some "turn that down!" wife testing. I think after the initial shock she will begin to like it.
Posted via Mobile Device
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,431 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Probably a few days. Not sure yet. I'll be out of town for the weekend camping. I'll ley u know when I get back.


Parting gifts...







dts-10 3d.jpg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,431 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
I don't think that the kit has even shipped out yet, or if it has I'm not aware of it. As soon as I know more I'll give an update.

Here's a response graph comparing the relative output levels and FR against a TH50 in a very large 8000cu ft warehouse room. It appears to not only have much greater sub 20hz extension but also to be equal or more sensitive everywhere over the TH50. This may be due to impedance differences but if so this is astounding.







DTS10%20versus%20TH50.jpg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,431 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
FYI the graph I posted above is not representing maximum output in any way. It is just a FR comparison graph of the 2 cabs in the same room.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
122 Posts
This looks very interisting. What kind of drivers are determined to be used in a horn enclosure?
Danley modified Eminence Lab12s for a start. Danley will also be publishing a list of "workable" drivers for use in this DTS-10. FWIW, I'd stay with the LABs. Cheap, available and provable.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
361 Posts
Couple things to keep everyone updated... Tom danley and Ivan Beaver just let us know that they have already sold out of drivers for this. Apparently it was a bigger hit than anticipated combined with a large last minute installation that required the same drivers the dts10 uses. Good news is they are getting a shipment in of drivers in about 4 or 5 weeks so yes a wait but not a huge wait.

A bit of slightly bad news is that the original lab12 driver does not look like it will work. The motor involved in that driver is not quite strong enough to work with this enclosure. There will still be a list of drivers that are suitable, but as this isn't an extreme priority the eta on that list is unknown.

Still hoping ricci and me will get our kits in the next few days to help people receiving the kit assemble it properly and help with any questions along the way.
Posted via Mobile Device
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,026 Posts
Couple things to keep everyone updated... Tom danley and Ivan Beaver just let us know that they have already sold out of drivers for this. Apparently it was a bigger hit than anticipated combined with a large last minute installation that required the same drivers the dts10 uses. Good news is they are getting a shipment in of drivers in about 4 or 5 weeks so yes a wait but not a huge wait.

A bit of slightly bad news is that the original lab12 driver does not look like it will work. The motor involved in that driver is not quite strong enough to work with this enclosure. There will still be a list of drivers that are suitable, but as this isn't an extreme priority the eta on that list is unknown.

Still hoping ricci and me will get our kits in the next few days to help people receiving the kit assemble it properly and help with any questions along the way.
Posted via Mobile Device
Get me a set of parameters and I'll do an XBL^2 version of the driver with some massive stroke.

Kevin Haskins
Exodus Audio
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,431 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Ummm...Kevin that would be the (insert expletive here)!

I haven't even built or heard the thing yet, but I'm already wondering about alternate drivers, as I like to have the most powerful drivers available for a given application. The modified 12" driver that DSL uses does have the standard 12spoke frame I believe, so a Shiva frame would mount right on up to it. BUT we need to have the driver possess the right characteristics which the Shiva X may not in stock form. The driver they are using is a very solid driver, but something like a modded Shiva would obviously have more stroke for the 11-30hz area. Tom himself would be the guy who has the knowledge to determine what the "ideal" specs would be. Otherwise it would largely be guesswork right now by people less talented as the exact dimensions/angles and lay-out of the enclosure are unknown and DSL isn't likely to release them soon.

I tell you what. PM me your e-mail address and I'll send something to Tom about it with you in the loop so you guys can maybe open up a dialogue about it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
361 Posts
Hey Josh, I forwarded you a message. Kevin, I had sent something to Tom a few minutes ago. We'll see what he says.
Posted via Mobile Device
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
122 Posts
Get me a set of parameters and I'll do an XBL^2 version of the driver with some massive stroke.

Kevin Haskins
Exodus Audio

Unlike traditional alignments, horns don't rely so heavily on XMAX. Infact, using high XMAX drivers in a horn will lead to "throat overload". The pressure inside the horn path gets to a point where a negative pressure wave creates a vacuum effect causing turbulence and compression within the horn ultimately resulting in distortion.

The original Adire Tempest (Manufactured by Eminence) was a popular horn driver. How close are the original's t/s to the new Tempest-X?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
Unlike traditional alignments, horns don't rely so heavily on XMAX. Infact, using high XMAX drivers in a horn will lead to "throat overload". The pressure inside the horn path gets to a point where a negative pressure wave creates a vacuum effect causing turbulence and compression within the horn ultimately resulting in distortion.
True, at frequencies where the horn is really "in effect." However, these guys are talking about wanting the high-xmax drivers specifically for lower frequencies, when the loading at the throat is decreasing...
 
1 - 20 of 189 Posts
Top