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Ricci said:
Consider this simulation.
Right, but you could nearly make two ported Maelstrom Xs with amplification for the final cost of that horn. The massive output above 30hz may hold draw for some, but I'm not sure how most could put that to any use. When people can start designing their own folded horns that can stay relatively flat to 10hz without needing to buy a kit - meaning they can do it all from start to finish - then the cost will be very competitive.
 

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The ported M-X looks like a great value for money proposition from those graphs. Plenty of usable power that most people would never max out.

Am I reading it right ?
 

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The massive output above 30hz may hold draw for some, but I'm not sure how most could put that to any use. When people can start designing their own folded horns that can stay relatively flat to 10hz without needing to buy a kit - meaning they can do it all from start to finish - then the cost will be very competitive.
With the output above thirty it will be great for music and being that it has good output below that makes it a good all around sub. IMO. I wouldn't have the slightest idea how to desiegn a sub like the DTS. For what it's worth a desiegn that can make 12'' subs perform like this is quite an accomplishment. I see people on another forum comparing this sub to the XXX's which cost more for one driver then the whole DTS kit. That shows me it is worth the money.
 

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Discussion Starter #146
I'm going to try pushing the DTS10 harder later this week. It appears that Tom D. is confident that it should have at least another 6-10db of output 10-25hz before the drivers run out of headroom. If this is the case then the performance is truly scary. I think that what I may be hearing on very high level sine waves is the mouth chuffing and compressing a bit due to the gigantic air flow.

I don't see how you can get 2 Mal-X's $780 plus shipping, with appropriate amplification ($500-$600)and build the enclosures for less than one DTS10 shipped with amp and parts at about $1400. It should come out as a bit more expensive. Also you'll end up with a pair of enclosures almost as large as the single DTS10. It'd be a good reference comparison.
 

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Great Ricci, I'll be looking forward to your results.
 

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tcarcio said:
With the output above thirty it will be great for music and being that it has good output below that makes it a good all around sub
I'm not saying it's a bad sub, I'm saying I don't see many home applications in which that massive output above 30hz would be put to a lot of use. In my opinion, the ideal design would be able to shift some of that capability down into lower octaves and maintain a relatively balanced amount of capability across the subwoofer spectrum.

Ricci said:
I don't see how you can get 2 Mal-X's $780 plus shipping, with appropriate amplification ($500-$600)and build the enclosures for less than one DTS10 shipped with amp and parts at about $1400. It should come out as a bit more expensive. Also you'll end up with a pair of enclosures almost as large as the single DTS10. It'd be a good reference comparison.
Right, the dual Maelstroms would be a little more expensive, but they would offer greater usable performance for HT in my opinion.

I'd like to see more in room FRs of this kit in other people's rooms to see if this thing in tamable.
 

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I agree with Steve. Its an amazing sub, but for those of us with smaller rooms (who don't need all the headroom the DTS10 offers), there are better alternatives. A single 15 would provide plenty in my 1,700 cu.ft. room and dual 15s would smooth out the response nicely for a slightly lower price.

In a 4,000+ cu.ft. space, two DTS10 would be simply amazing.

It would be interesting to see a comparison of two 15s to this sub in a small room at normal listening levels. Could you hear any difference?
 

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Discussion Starter #150
Sigh...Why is everything always this versus that? Also go ahead and throw the cost equation out of the window. I never operate based on that. Other people may, but they won't be looking at a pair of ported Mal-X's on 2 EP2500's either.

Agreed. If you don't need high head room levels and just need decent headroom with decent extension then the DTS10 is not really meant for you. A couple of smaller affordable sealed subs (3 or 4) is probably a better bet. Sure you can get 2 big sonotubes for about the same price, but this has never been about the absolute rock bottom price competitiveness with DIY and the 2 huge EBS's(which they must be to compete) will take up much more room.

The extra high headroom above 20hz is to ensure that you never run into compression or distortion even at the highest output levels and the majority of the bass content is still above 20hz even in movies. I consider the placement options for the DTS-10 as actually better for me than a big sonotube sub due to the flatness and 16" depth. It's 23.24cu ft total outside space, which is about the same as many single large ported subs.

Also I don't know why the frequency response keeps coming up again and again. I already posted twice that it is my room doing that and ANY single sub is going to look like in my room regardless of the response shape. The XXX's is a simple sealed alignment with a very typical sealed response. It looks every bit as nasty and jagged in the same spot as the DTS10. Only by adding a second do I get the better looking response. The outdoor response may not be as utterly flat as we are used to seeing but that becomes completely irrelevant once you put it into a room environment anyway.
 

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It's "this vs that" because a lot of readers want to get into the subwoofer game and need to make an educated decision on what to spend their money on.

The FR of the horn will not be nearly as flat as a LLT or sealed sub. I'm not talking about in doors, as that is beyond what the designer of the sub can control most of the time, but anechoically. That said, it's easier to make a success out of a FR that starts off flat than one that starts off with peaks and nulls.
 

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Sigh...Why is everything always this versus that?
OK, thats kinda funny because you give two this vs that statments later in your post. :D We all have this vs that lists, they are just different from person to person.

I would be curious to know just how big a room you could fill with sound with two of these subs.
 

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That said, it's easier to make a success out of a FR that starts off flat than one that starts off with peaks and nulls.
The outdoor frequency response has a couple peaks but no nulls. Just a rolloff that a lot of subs have. Knock down the peaks outdoors and you have a good starting point for good indoor response.
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I would be curious to know just how big a room you could fill with sound with two of these subs.
I don't know how large you can go for two of them. 4 of the TH50's fills in the sub range for an imax theater. This sub can do what the TH50 does and adds in extension. A single dts10 fills my 4000+ cubic foot room and I am not pushing it hard at all. Using a single channel of an ep2500 does all that I need.
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Brandon, How do you have that wired up to the EP?
 

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I thought the subs had to be wired out of phase to eachother?
 

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Discussion Starter #158
OK, thats kinda funny because you give two this vs that statments later in your post. :D We all have this vs that lists, they are just different from person to person.

I would be curious to know just how big a room you could fill with sound with two of these subs.
I was addressing points that someone else had already made in a "this vs that" scenario, which I happen to have a different view point on. It just gets tiring when there is always someone championing their horse in the race, whether it be sealed, ported, IB, horns, line arrays, or whatever as better. It happens in so many threads. I don't just mean this one or Steve in particular.
 

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I thought out of polarity was the same as out of phase? Am I having a senior moment?:huh:
 
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