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Discussion Starter #1
I am a newbie. I have had this Denon 2809CI for some time now. But, when I play it loud it will shut down in 5-10 mins. Since new. I have Deftek BP7006 front, Deftek BP2002 center, and Deftek BP (?) 2004?:blink: ( bookshelf ) can not find the model# on them. I am looking at upgrading to a Denon 4520 or 3313. Any suggestions? Or something that can drive these speakers like they are meant to be?
 

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I have the 3313ci and love it. You have to do firmware updates I've found for optimal performance. I power deftechs in a 7.2 and it is too loud past 70%. The room is 15x25. You can see in my build. Also it needs plenty of air.
 

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The Denon 3313ci with 125watts per should be plentyto drive 7.2 Def Tech speakers. I have the older Denon 3805 with 120watts with Focal subs and B&W satellites and I can drive at natural sounding levels with plenty to spare. You can buy Refurbs from Accessories4Less 3313ci for $629 and the 150watt 4520 for $1500. You may get a few extras in all areas of the 4520 but hardly worth the $900 extra or..., If i had the $2400 for a new Denon I'd throw a few more $$$ and buy a Krell

Regards
 

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Your current Denon AVR 2809CI is a little underpowered Bench tested it will do about 95watts into two channels and it drops from there as you run more. You might just be better off investing in an external two channel amp like the Emotiva XPA 200
 

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Discussion Starter #5
ok. Since I am still try to learn about this audio stuff. I am running 2 front, 2 rear, and a center. Is this considered a 5 channel system that can do 7 channel? ( 2809CI ). Then my question is, 2 channel only runs 2 speakers?
 

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Yes , that is correct.
 

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Hey Tom,

Tony has an interesting idea, especially if you plan on growing your system and who doesn't like that idea. My thoughts and I believe Tony' as well - Denon offers Pre-amp Outs on many of their models. Now you ask, what are the pre-amp outputs and what can be the advantage.

Well on the back panel of many Denon AVR you will find RCA connectors that allow you to use the pre-amp section of the Denon amp and connect this pre-amp section of the Denon to your choice of power amps. You could buy a two channel power amp or a pair of exceptional quality monoblocks or a nice Krell 5 channel power amp or even 7 channel. This is an exceptional upgrade path.

Now with the reduced power demands on your Denon AVR power section you have greater available RMS wattage to divide between the fewer speakers being driven.

FYI - something to think about
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thank you. I was going to ask, " how to connect an amp" thank you for your great mind reading skills. lol. The wife really does not appreciate audio like I would like her too.. So I have to keep things kinda on the down low, and sneak in a piece in here and there. And if she finds out, tell her it didn't cost much. It's ok honey. Let me show you how much better your favorite movie sounds. So I did look up the Emotiva. Looks like a great option.
 

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Hey Tom

FYI - I do not know the history of your AVR I do not know if somebody has tinkered with this Denon 2908 or 2908ci. You should not attempt any changes until you are sure you understand the process completely and accept full responsibility. I cannot know the condition of your Denon AVR and I cannot watch to be sure you make proper connections.

You will find the location of "Pre Outs" on page #20 of your owners manual with a brief description, I believe.

I understand the Emotiva equipment is nice and becoming popular. I like the prices. Hope you enjoy the results of your labor.

Enjoy
 

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The Denon 3313ci with 125watts per should be plentyto drive 7.2 Def Tech speakers. I have the older Denon 3805 with 120watts with Focal subs and B&W satellites and I can drive at natural sounding levels with plenty to spare. You can buy Refurbs from Accessories4Less 3313ci for $629 and the 150watt 4520 for $1500. You may get a few extras in all areas of the 4520 but hardly worth the $900 extra or..., If i had the $2400 for a new Denon I'd throw a few more $$$ and buy a Krell

Regards
If you got a Krell you would then need a power amp too... I would be suprised if you could get Krell amp and processor for double the price of the Denon 4520. I am not saying the Krell is not better but that it is in a dif league. Personally if I had the kind of cash to buy Krell I would go Classe.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Greg, I am not sure what you are talking about changes? Like connecting an amp? The 2809ci I have is a refurb. I have not used it much as I was involved in a move and hooked it temp after a year and a half. I have since moved it into the back tv room and it powers some cheap sony's. Just to get some tv and radio sound. I like the idea of the 3313ci, if it could drive the deftec's properly. The reason I was considering the 4520ci is because of the great write up from one of your great audio guys. Forget his name. It was recently?? Denon has 3 refurbs for $1500. But I don't need the extras? Just the power. On a budget.
 

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Classe' is much more practical and reviewers speak highly. You are right about Krell it takes $$$ to own one, but for $2500 you can own a two channel 150 into 8ohms 300 into 4ohm (true wattage) integrated. For $7500 you can buy the Krell TAS a five channel amp 200w per. I've read of comparisons with Mark Levinson No.433 or a newer one I don't remember. Krell still the better review. We will never know unless we try. One day I will own a Krell. Maybe a small 2 channel amp I'll plug into my Denon Pre out (probably a used amp).
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Is 125W enough to drive the Deftecs for a clean and natural sound, and AC/DC, Judas Priest and such? With out shutting down.
 

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Normally 4Ohm speakers have more than one driver and a tweeter. This usually means a fuller sound. Bookshelves will generally be 8Ohm
a 4ohm speaker needs less power to get loud (the lower the number the closer to a short it is) but because of the lower ohm's it will run the amps hotter.
 

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Classe' is much more practical and reviewers speak highly. You are right about Krell it takes $$$ to own one, but for $2500 you can own a two channel 150 into 8ohms 300 into 4ohm (true wattage) integrated. For $7500 you can buy the Krell TAS a five channel amp 200w per. I've read of comparisons with Mark Levinson No.433 or a newer one I don't remember. Krell still the better review. We will never know unless we try. One day I will own a Krell. Maybe a small 2 channel amp I'll plug into my Denon Pre out (probably a used amp).
Years ago (2 channel days) I had the Classe 6 preamp and 2 DR10 power amps in bridged mode... AWESOME is all I can say!
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Thank you guys for all the info. I think I am going to go with the 3313ci refurb. and if I need a litttle more I will go with Tony's suggestion of the Emotiva. Refurb from Denon factory is $699, and from Accessories4Less $629. Probably best to get it direct from Denon?
 

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Your current Denon AVR 2809CI is a little underpowered Bench tested it will do about 95watts into two channels and it drops from there as you run more. You might just be better off investing in an external two channel amp like the Emotiva XPA 200
I like the idea of an external amp as I ran a couple different Emotiva's with a 2809 with good results (an old LPA-1 and an XPA-5). Can I ask where you found the bench-testing numbers on the 2809?
 

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Most bench test results can be found here but they have not done a review of the 2809 that I found however Ive read enough reviews of comparable Denon's and other brands to know that a receiver that weighs 28lbs is not going to output more than about 80Watts per channel all channels driven.
 
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