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Jeff,
That is actually awesome that you have such an acoustically sound room. SubEQ HT was just the absolute perfect application considering I am using 2 different subwoofers and the thrust of my enthusiasm for Audyssey is the effect on the Subwoofer. This sentiment was the same when I was using a single subwoofer and many do believe that where RoomEQ in general provides the most beneficial effect is with the Sub/LFE.

With the Denon, I actually have been switching back and forth between Bypassing FL/FR and full XT32. I wish that Onkyo offered this option. Apologies if the current Onkyos are now offering this.
Best,
J
I hear you Jack, the dual subwoofers is my main concern, I wish I could get a product that has Audyssey SubEQ HT only, that would be the ideal solution for me. I don't know if my room is acoustically perfect, I spend countless hours with placement and listening and using the tools on the side of my head but would really like something in a receiver that deals with LFE strictly.
Cheers
 

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Hello,I don't mean to hijack this conversation but if someone can please answer this. I have just the multeq version of Audyssey and I am using two subs that Audyssey reads as one because I have no Sub Eq Ht on my avr. If one day I decide to use just one sub do I need to run Audyssey again in order to get the full potential of the one sub? In using two subs does the performance split up among the two?
 

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Hello,I don't mean to hijack this conversation but if someone can please answer this. I have just the multeq version of Audyssey and I am using two subs that Audyssey reads as one because I have no Sub Eq Ht on my avr. If one day I decide to use just one sub do I need to run Audyssey again in order to get the full potential of the one sub? In using two subs does the performance split up among the two?
You would - it would set the distance based on the reading from the two and adjust the delay accordingly.
 

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I do too. While it seems controversial, I have always brought out my SPL Meter after running MultEQ beginning with my TX-SR805. I set all of my loudspeakers to 75db's and subwoofer to 80db's.
Not necessarily controversial, but its all if you trust a cheap spl meter over a high tech room correction software like audyssey. That's pretty much the way it was explained to me on the audyssey thread. Audyssey basically makes us change the way we hear our system. Reference vs preference.
 

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Not necessarily controversial, but its all if you trust a cheap spl meter over a high tech room correction software like audyssey. That's pretty much the way it was explained to me on the audyssey thread. Audyssey basically makes us change the way we hear our system. Reference vs preference.
I've used a CHEAP SPL meter with the high tech Audyssey mic and had very similar spl readings with the LFE. The Audyssey mics supplied are surely not high tech devices to use with the so called high tech software. There are way too many questions for me to employ active Audy EQ compared to the answers. Audyssey for me funamentally changes the character of the sound coming out of the speaker in ways that nobody has even attempted to quantify. You said it yourself, Audyssey changes the way we hear our systems, what reference is there for comparison? So I quess we have to just get used to an Audyssey corrected sound and just take their word for it that's it's reference. I have great expectations for the SubEQ HT but that's as far as I wil go with Audyssey. I wish I had the knowledge to use high tech software and mics to manually apply cut or boost, at least I will know how I am tailoring the sound and not just taking Audyssey's unquantified word for it.
Cheers Jeff
 

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that is your opinion, and you have that right. I guess Im lost how you think Audyssey ISNT a higher tech piece of equipment/software? But to each his own. Im not sure what version of Audyssey you are using, but XT32 has way more filters and is just a better version all the way around.
The reference vs preference I stated is a good read here:


Here is a trick question: “What if I correct the acoustical problems in my room, but I don’t like the resulting sound?” If you find yourself asking this question you have stumbled on the line between Reference and Preference.

Let’s look at what room correction aims to do. You start with a good (or not so good) set of speakers, you place them in a room and what you have is problems: acoustical problems. Sound from the speakers comes to you from many different directions. Some of it directly, but most of it after interacting with the floor, ceiling, walls, and furniture. Because each of these elements is at different distances from where you sit, the combined sounds arrive at slightly different times and what you hear is a form of distortion. Voices can sound unnatural, the low frequencies are muddy or boomy, and the high frequencies lack air and sparkle (yes, these are all technical terms).

A well-designed room correction system captures information throughout the listening area and analyzes it in the time domain. It then creates an equalization solution for each speaker and applies it so that the response matches a certain target sound. And here is where we first catch a glimpse of the Reference vs Preference line: What should this target sound be?

The answer lies earlier in the chain, where the content is made. The film industry adheres to a set of strict standards that are used in the creation of the content and in the reproduction of the content in movie theaters. These standards define the location, level, and frequency response (target sound) of the speakers in the audio system. They are in place so that content created in one location can translate perfectly to thousands of movie theaters. The same translation should apply when the content is played back in a home theater.

So, calibrating your home theater system “to reference” means that: (i) the levels of each speaker and subwoofer are matched to each other; (ii) the playback level of the system reaches a certain sound pressure level when the volume control on your AVR is set to “0”; (iii) the time delays for each speaker and subwoofer are adjusted so that sound from all of them arrives at the same time to the central point of the listening area; and (iv) the frequency response of each speaker and subwoofer is such that the perceived octave-to-octave balance is the same at home as it is in the dubbing stage or the movie theater.

Reference is a good thing because it gives us a way to reproduce the art the way it was made. But, you might say: “I like more (or less) bass.” OK, I’ve never heard anyone ask for “less bass,” but I suppose it’s possible. As soon as the word “like” is uttered we have crossed into the uncharted waters of the Preference abyss. It can be a fun place to be and there is nothing wrong with applying personal touches to your sound, especially if you are the one enjoying it. But know this: It’s not the job of a room correction system to determine your preference. That is entirely up to you. What room correction gives you when it delivers reference is a known baseline and the ability to apply preference consistently. Without it, boosting the bass for some content would not sound the way you want it for other content because you are not starting from a known condition. If you want to apply your preference, I have some words of advice: “Start with reference.”
 

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Thank you for that, I have read that many times trying to understand it. And yes I have experienced XT32 but not SubEQ HT. You have a very nice setup and I'm sure RC has improved your reference system to your referred preference. Please provide me with some documented quantifiable proof of this data that RC does everything mentioned in the article and content of the source is indeed arriving at your LP at the intended times and corrected accordingly. IOW without room correction and those who are not pro RC are just wasting their time buying any kind of serious AV equipment because we are not hearing this percieved reference sound. I am not saying you do not seriously hear these vast room corrections, this to me is a very subjective discussion, the proof is in the puddin, show me. Seriously no malice intented here, I hope you don't feel that way, and thank you for that very interesting explanation. Can and have these results been measured with before and after RC filters? Thank you for the time.
Cheers Jeff
 

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Thank you for that, I have read that many times trying to understand it. And yes I have experienced XT32 but not SubEQ HT. You have a very nice setup and I'm sure RC has improved your reference system to your referred preference. Please provide me with some documented quantifiable proof of this data that RC does everything mentioned in the article and content of the source is indeed arriving at your LP at the intended times and corrected accordingly. IOW without room correction and those who are not pro RC are just wasting their time buying any kind of serious AV equipment because we are not hearing this percieved reference sound. I am not saying you do not seriously hear these vast room corrections, this to me is a very subjective discussion, the proof is in the puddin, show me. Seriously no malice intented here, I hope you don't feel that way, and thank you for that very interesting explanation. Can and have these results been measured with before and after RC filters? Thank you for the time.
Cheers Jeff
Sorry if I'm misunderstanding you but is your position RC doesn't work or that Audyssey and its like are just marketing gimmicks?
 

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Discussion Starter #169
Not necessarily controversial, but its all if you trust a cheap spl meter over a high tech room correction software like audyssey. That's pretty much the way it was explained to me on the audyssey thread. Audyssey basically makes us change the way we hear our system. Reference vs preference.
The thing is the Audyssey Filtering is not disengaged when the Channel Levels are adjusted. And as for a cheap SPL Meter, I am quite confident that the microphone used in my SPL is at least the equal of the tiny one that is used with the Audyssey Microphone. You might notice that the Audyssey Pro Kit uses a real Microphone as opposed to a McDonalds Happy Meal sized microphone bundled with all other Audyssey equipped AVR/SSP's. Moreover, I have used a friend's very expensive SPL Meter as well after running MultEQ and the variation is slight if any.

When running XT32, my Mains and CC do not need adjustment and read 75db's. However, my surrounds which are around 4 feet away from my primary listening position, read so low that they do not even read when set to the 70db Band. That is they are reading below 70db's and are truly not audible when left at the post MultEQ Settings.
 

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I never said or implied audyssey is perfect. Every room is different. I myself honestly don't care if you like audyssey or not, therefore I'm not going out looking for proof etc...to make you like or understand it. There is a huge and very very informative thread over at AVS forum dedicated to audyssey. A lot smarter gents than I on this subject.

If you yourself think that manual eq tops audyssey room correction so be it. I never said that by adjusting your channels individually trumps or disengages aud either. Audyssey has a website where you can talk to Luke and Chris (inventor of audyssey) to ask certain questions and get great info.
 

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When running XT32, my Mains and CC do not need adjustment and read 75db's. However, my surrounds which are around 4 feet away from my primary listening position, read so low that they do not even read when set to the 70db Band. That is they are reading below 70db's and are truly not audible when left at the post MultEQ Settings.
Hmmm, that's wierd. Why would Audyssey set them below what's audible? So what do you adjust them to? What does it take to make them audible? I assume you're sitting there with the meter or you're getting all fancy and have the meter on a stand?

And for the record non of my posts are meant to aggressive or even passive-aggressive. I truly enjoy the discussion of these topics and am a firm believer doing what you like. I also don't consider a different opinion to be a attack on mine.
 

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The Surrounds are probably reading around 68db's. Mind you the Audyssey Microphone is about 5 feet away from the Vistas in the primary listening position and less when doing the 2nd and 3rd position. Again, it is when the SPL Meter is set to the 70db Band that it is reading "Low". I have never bothered to see what the exact SPL reading is as I know it is too low and the Surrounds are barely audible after running MultEQ.

Most do not have their surrounds so close to their listening position, but I decided to place a premium on the main stage and have the couch about as far away as possible from the Mains and CC. It comes out to around 16 feet. As I said prior, I just bump up the Surrounds so that they read 75db's and choose to raise the Subwoofers to 80.
 

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The Surrounds are probably reading around 68db's. Mind you the Audyssey Microphone is about 5 feet away from the Vistas in the primary listening position and less when doing the 2nd and 3rd position. Again, it is when the SPL Meter is set to the 70db Band that it is reading "Low". I have never bothered to see what the exact SPL reading is as I know it is too low and the Surrounds are barely audible after running MultEQ.

Most do not have their surrounds so close to their listening position, but I decided to place a premium on the main stage and have the couch about as far away as possible from the Mains and CC. It comes out to around 16 feet. As I said prior, I just bump up the Surrounds so that they read 75db's and choose to raise the Subwoofers to 80.
That sure is civil and eloquently put Jack, thank you. I quess some collars are smoking, hadn't noticed till the removal. I heard you can get a Rat Shack meter at ACE hardware in the pest control department. I have no qualms with discussing Audyssey both pros and cons, and I'm sure the inventors are more than willing to help with all facets of it's operational behaviour. If my name was Jeff Lamborghini born in Bologna Italy I'd gladly advocate the driving of my car, although they are owned by a German company called Volkswagen. I don't know why these things turn into fists fights. I was always taught that your listening environment should be one of a casual affair, to intertain and be comfortable with company and enjoy the music. I guess I'm old school and need to get caught up in what's happening in the real world of altered states. Take care my friend.
Cheers Jeff
 

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Please remember we are all friends here and let's keep the dialogue civil.
Hey Joe my man, how's things buddy, long time no talk. I hope all is well with you and yours. How's the Aragons treating you? OK then, sorry if I spoke out of line, I have no intention of doing so, nor wishing any malice towards anyone.
Cheers Jeff
 

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Hey Joe. Bummer to hear about all your issues with the 4520. Hopefully you get some resolution soon.

Just curious to those with working units, what sound mode do you like to use for movies?

Also, when in Neo X 11.1 mode, if I go into the Audyssey menu and turn on heights/wides, then go to a new sound mode and return, the settings don't take. Is this the norm?
 

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With the growing issues with this unit on AVS and some of them on this thread, I think I feel better about my Marantz purchase.

A guy on AVS went through four units before getting a good one. Another member just bought two and one was bad out of the box. I always thought Denon was a rock solid unit, hence the reason I swapped over to them from Onkyo.
 

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With the growing issues with this unit on AVS and some of them on this thread, I think I feel better about my Marantz purchase.

A guy on AVS went through four units before getting a good one. Another member just bought two and one was bad out of the box. I always thought Denon was a rock solid unit, hence the reason I swapped over to them from Onkyo.
it's luck of the draw. I have a Denon for almost 3 years and no issues. My Denon has no internet capabilities and that may be a reason why there are no issues.Avrs nowadays do way more than what they were intended to do in the first place and that's just simply amplify. Some Onkyos have hmdi issues too.
 

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it's luck of the draw. I have a Denon for almost 3 years and no issues. My Denon has no internet capabilities and that may be a reason why there are no issues.Avrs nowadays do way more than what they were intended to do in the first place and that's just simply amplify. Some Onkyos have hmdi issues too.
You havent had the 4520 for three years. It hasnt been out that long.

Seems the problems arouse after the merger.
 

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You havent had the 4520 for three years. It hasnt been out that long.

Seems the problems arouse after the merger.
I did not say I had the 4520 for almost 3 years. I said I have a Denon for almost 3 years with no internet capabilities.
 
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