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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Which of these combos would you do and why?

I want the deepest extension and best midbass slam. My room is 13.5 x 33 x 9 with a stairwell running up to the main floor. About ~4000 cubic feet total.

4 x Mach5 Pi-18 ($2120)
1 x LG Clone FP10000Q ($930)
$3.05K + enclosures (14cf)


6 x Fi Q18 D1 ($2004)
1 x LG Clone FP14000 ($848)
$2.85K + enclosures (28cf)


4 x SSA XCON 18 ($1830)
1 x LG Clone FP14000 ($848)
$2.68K + enclosures (20cf)

8 x Fi SSD 18 ($2000)
1 x LG Clone FP14000 ($848)
$2.85K + enclosures (30 cf?)


I have a DCX 2496 I can use for EQ (only down to 20hz?), as well as a MultEQ XT receiver in my Onkyo 1007.


Looking at getting quotes on dual opposed boxes from eD.

Have a thread on another forum as well for ideas.
Will purchase an Omnimic for measurements.
 

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If I could figure out how to attach the WinISD graphs I would. I modeled the Fi drivers in boxes with the same displacement as Not's LMS drivers yielding a .725Qtc. 8 SSD's in 36cu and 6 Q's in 28cu model identical when driven to xmax at 5hz. The Q's will of course require power to reach Xmax (4,000 watts more). They both appear to have more midbass than the Pi drivers, but lack the low end extension. Nothing you can't eq to match however. The 4 Pi's would be down 3db at 20hz (122db), but take up half the floor space. To me it becomes a matter of how long do you want to wait on the Pi-18's to start arriving alive, and how valuable is floor space. For the $ I say throw out the idea of the Q15's (8). They model identical to the Pi-18 in the same boxes, but require insane amounts of power to drive that many to xmax. I don't follow the clone thread much, but to my simple mind the 10000Q would make the most sense for the SSD option. You could run 4 boxes with 2 subs in each off the 4 channel amp and still be within xmax and eq them all individually dependent on room placement.

I reached out to Scott with Fi this morning to see about group buy pricing, so I will update this when I hear one way or another. Also I will be sending Ricci an 18 SSD to test hopefully in the next week or two if that helps you make a decision either way.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
If I could figure out how to attach the WinISD graphs I would. I modeled the Fi drivers in boxes with the same displacement as Not's LMS drivers yielding a .725Qtc. 8 SSD's in 36cu and 6 Q's in 28cu model identical when driven to xmax at 5hz. The Q's will of course require power to reach Xmax (4,000 watts more). They both appear to have more midbass than the Pi drivers, but lack the low end extension. Nothing you can't eq to match however. The 4 Pi's would be down 3db at 20hz (122db), but take up half the floor space. To me it becomes a matter of how long do you want to wait on the Pi-18's to start arriving alive, and how valuable is floor space. For the $ I say throw out the idea of the Q15's (8). They model identical to the Pi-18 in the same boxes, but require insane amounts of power to drive that many to xmax. I don't follow the clone thread much, but to my simple mind the 10000Q would make the most sense for the SSD option. You could run 4 boxes with 2 subs in each off the 4 channel amp and still be within xmax and eq them all individually dependent on room placement.

I reached out to Scott with Fi this morning to see about group buy pricing, so I will update this when I hear one way or another. Also I will be sending Ricci an 18 SSD to test hopefully in the next week or two if that helps you make a decision either way.
Well, I would like to keep the form factor down to something similar to a submersives size or smaller. I just got a quote from eD for 4 dual opposed boxes, 19Dx20Wx21H...3.25 cu ft prior to drivers. This would be for the 8 Fi Q15 drivers. If I go dual opposed boxes with SSD 18s, I'm pretty much back to the size that the CHT 18.2 boxes are, of which is my ID consideration...I just sold my CHT 18.1 pair so I'm used to and like the sound of those drivers....the SSD and CHT 18 driver seem to be very similar performers.....

The most sense is probably the 10000Q like you mentioned.

Couldn't I run the 14000 clone amp with the 4 dual opposed boxes? Buy another 14000 down the road?

Or is the end result the same using the SSDs? Comes down to floor space?

I could fit 4 dual opposed boxes under my screen which would be nice... If 18" that ends up going to side wall placement for 2 of the 4, which tests okay when we looked at positions earlier in the year.

With this much displacement, what would this come down to if you were deciding?

--And in reference to the other thread going south fast, I think that was probably my fault...anytime you get certain people involved in a thread over there, good luck....
 

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Well, I would like to keep the form factor down to something similar to a submersives size or smaller. I just got a quote from eD for 4 dual opposed boxes, 19Dx20Wx21H...3.25 cu ft prior to drivers. This would be for the 8 Fi Q15 drivers. If I go dual opposed boxes with SSD 18s, I'm pretty much back to the size that the CHT 18.2 boxes are, of which is my ID consideration...I just sold my CHT 18.1 pair so I'm used to and like the sound of those drivers....the SSD and CHT 18 driver seem to be very similar performers.....

The most sense is probably the 10000Q like you mentioned.

Couldn't I run the 14000 clone amp with the 4 dual opposed boxes? Buy another 14000 down the road?

Or is the end result the same using the SSDs? Comes down to floor space?

I could fit 4 dual opposed boxes under my screen which would be nice... If 18" that ends up going to side wall placement for 2 of the 4, which tests okay when we looked at positions earlier in the year.

With this much displacement, what would this come down to if you were deciding?

--And in reference to the other thread going south fast, I think that was probably my fault...anytime you get certain people involved in a thread over there, good luck....
You definitely get better output it looks like from the 8 Q15's than the 4 SSD 18's with considerably less box space, the trade off is more $ and power though. I don't know how you are going to configure your room but if the 4 boxes are in 4 different locations I would vote the 10000Q over the 14000. That gives you 4 different channels to adjust phase, eq, etc for each set of subs. If you plan to co locate them all under the screen then I vote for the 14000 because of the extra output it offers. For me personally I say if space is a concern go with the 15 Q's. If $ is your primary concern go with the SSD's. I would be shocked though if Scott didn't get you a very competitive price on Q's w shorting rings when buying that many. I know he can save some $ on shipping also if you let him know via email also.

On a side note I am planning to drop an 18 SSD off to Ricci this weds to get some #'s run on it if that would help either way.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
You definitely get better output it looks like from the 8 Q15's than the 4 SSD 18's with considerably less box space, the trade off is more $ and power though. I don't know how you are going to configure your room but if the 4 boxes are in 4 different locations I would vote the 10000Q over the 14000. That gives you 4 different channels to adjust phase, eq, etc for each set of subs. If you plan to co locate them all under the screen then I vote for the 14000 because of the extra output it offers. For me personally I say if space is a concern go with the 15 Q's. If $ is your primary concern go with the SSD's. I would be shocked though if Scott didn't get you a very competitive price on Q's w shorting rings when buying that many. I know he can save some $ on shipping also if you let him know via email also.

On a side note I am planning to drop an 18 SSD off to Ricci this weds to get some #'s run on it if that would help either way.
I'd love to see the numbers from Ricci.
Ricci was more interested in the Qs as well. I emailed Scott with Riccis ideas for a run.


Just sold my CHT 18s to Technosponge today so those are out.

And the MFW quad pack dual opposed are in for now. They are desertdome/mojaves and we didn't get time to run them at the GTG. Crazy output. Something sounds weird with one of the dust caps or something on one, but otherwise they rock. Heard FOTP barrel roll at crazy levels. THAT WAS INTENSE.

Hopefully we can get measurements soon to show what this stuff does...I would want to locate the 15"s there. After seeing the size of these down there, I don't think I can do 8-18". Too much floor space taken up.

19Dx20Wx21H would fit nice in there...smaller than those 22" cubes...



I can't get the photo to upload here at the moment....
 

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Heres an idea, stick a single Fi IB318 in 1000 litres tuned to 12 hz and give it 500 watts :devil: That will punch the life out of you and deliver about 115db flat to 10hz in room. The port doesnt even need to be that big and the first port resonance is way up at 250hz. -3 @19hz and -6 at 10hz :)

Just throwing an idea out there :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Heres an idea, stick a single Fi IB318 in 1000 litres tuned to 12 hz and give it 500 watts :devil: That will punch the life out of you and deliver about 115db flat to 10hz in room. The port doesnt even need to be that big and the first port resonance is way up at 250hz. -3 @19hz and -6 at 10hz :)

Just throwing an idea out there :D
Yeah, that size of a box is just going to be too big for me. :)

How about this, 2 Mach 5 Pi 18s, each in 3 cubic foot enclosures, each powered by an EP4000.

Add a couple high efficiency low inductance 15s for midbass.

Thoughts?
 

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Trying to get this memo out as much as possible on various boards:


Just got word back from Mark/Aaron with SSA about their Xcon 18". Aesthetically this is more like the LMs and it fits well into the parameters that were thrown around previously (30mm xmax, shorting rings, Fs below 30hz etc). I know they will want some $ up front given what a hassle some group buys can become. They like Fi are used to dealing with the car audio crowd so let's show some HT decorum and handle this the way the TD group buy, MFW group buy was handled...painlessly. I will work with Aaron on a minimum quantity to order and an agreeable price at that quantity. I would love suggestions of course on pricing you think is fair for these US made drivers. Mind you these go for $400 every day.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
IB isn't an option for me, I only have one sidewall to work with, and the wife would rather stare at a couple nice looking black boxes! :)

After talking to Mach 5, I have tentatively ordered 2 Pi-18s, their new driver pending a frequency response they are sending me and additional specs.

Pi-18

I am either going to have eD build out a couple enclosures for me, or work with my carpentry friends and build out two dual opposed enclosures.

Due to the cost I'll purchase one FP14000 for each dual opposed sub.....one at a time most likely.

The Pi-18 parts won't come in for my second pair until the end of February, so when I receive those I'll get my second amp.

What do you guys think?

I think they model okay in 21x21x28 dual opposed boxes with the FP14000. Each driver is 4 ohms.

Thoughts?

Trying to be future proof.
 

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Man, with 4 high excursion 18's and that much power I'd think you're going to have more than enough headroom.

Are you getting a miniDSP to implement a LT and/or equalization? I think getting the subs to play nice with the rest of your system and room would be my biggest concern, if any.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Man, with 4 high excursion 18's and that much power I'd think you're going to have more than enough headroom.

Are you getting a miniDSP to implement a LT and/or equalization? I think getting the subs to play nice with the rest of your system and room would be my biggest concern, if any.
Well, my main decision is down to either 1 or 2 FP14000 amps, and I think I have been convinced that to make sure dynamics and headroom aren't affected at all to get 2 amps.

I have a DCX2496 at my disposal and a neighbor and audiophile that really understands EQ.

That being said, maybe I should just sell the DCX and get a miniDSP 2 x 8?
 

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I would only get the miniDSP if you want to implement the Linkwitz transform. Otherwise, use what you're comfortable with. I use a BFD and it works great.
 

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For ultimate in extension and slam nothing even comes close to a horn. I had a single Jensen (I know really!!?) 12" car sub in what was essentially a very large (like 25^3 ft) folded transmission line, and it exceeded 130db down to 22hz. My entire house rattled before that cheap little driver even started to cry uncle. My friend built a tapped horn using a 12" Epic sub from parts express also quite large that exceeds mine. The impulse response from them was so much cleaner than anything you will ever hear from a bass reflex or acoustic suspension design it's ridiculous. I am working on some designs using 8" and even 5" drivers from Tang Band that exceed 115db down below 25hz in a much more reasonable sized enclosure (5-10^3 ft). Once you hear the dynamics and clarity of a bass horn you'll never go back. That's my 2 cents anyway.
 
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