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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just bought a BenQ EP5920 projector for my Dad and need to decide on a screen for him... I am torn between a Black Widow DIY screen and a manufactured 128" one from EluneVision, (the HD Vivid Cinema Pro Grey 1.8 gain screen).

My problem is their viewing room is NOT ideal for a home theatre... off white walls, ceiling, even the carpet is light grey! It is in the basement but there is a fair amount of light to the back of the room, as well they are not the type to watch TV in the dark so a small lamp will probably be on.

The projector puts out 1800 lumens, (according to specs anyway), and according to the projector calculator with a 128" screen you will see 17FL.

To get to the point, can anyone recommend a higher gain screen like the EluneVision at 1.8 for these conditions? Or will a black widow DIY be just as good (maybe with a smaller screen)? Any comments on the EluneVision high gain grey screen?

Some info on the screen:
The High Definition Vivid Pro-Cinema material is designed for today’s low to moderate output DLP, LCD, D-ILA, CRT and
LCOS projectors. When video images are the application of screen and when ambient light is moderately controlled, it
is the superior choice. The screen material provides excellent black levels without sacrificing white level output, due to
its specially engineered gray base and top reflective surface. Due to its enhanced black levels and brilliant white levels,
this screen surface provides deep life-like colours and greater detail and sharpness to the image. Impregnated with glass
beads giving images more vividness and punch. The 100(50 x 2) degree viewing angle also allows for an exceptionally
wider seating arrangement. This material is the premium EluneVision material for home theatres.
Sorry for the long winded first post! Tried to provide as much info as possible. Any help or recommendations are much appreciated!
 

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To get to the point, can anyone recommend a higher gain screen like the EluneVision at 1.8 for these conditions? Or will a black widow DIY be just as good (maybe with a smaller screen)? Any comments on the EluneVision high gain grey screen?
Welcome to HTS! :wave:

With 17fL hitting the screen, the last thing you would need is a 1.8 gain screen material. The 17fL is for a 1.0 material, if you made it a 1.8 material you would be at 30fL.

I would find an OTS neutral gray to suit your needs and go smaller. Maybe something like a 120" screen or even smaller. Harp is our OTS neutral gray guy. He should be along shortly to help you pick one. :T
 

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Beauty is truly in the eye of the beholder so your High Definition Vivid Pro-Cinema screen might work for you, but the makers quoted 50° half-angle should be taken with a large grain of salt. That screen is retroreflective (thus the high gain value), but viewers should stay as close as possible to being seated on-axis with the PJ for the best image. As for that screen being too bright, the EP5920 has a Cinema mode that cuts image brightness by a quarter. The main problem with less expensive screens is the screen will develop waves which can usually be seen in the projected image. This would be especially apparent in a glass-beaded screen.

As for a DIY screen using OTS paint it's hard to beat Sherwin-Williams ProClassic Series B20 in satin finish and tinted to SW 'Unique Gray'. This paint has just about the maximum gloss level before visible hot spotting starts. Don't use other brands of paints in satin finish as all that I know of are much glossier than SW paint in that finish and will hot spot.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks for the info Mechman and Harpmaker... I was worried it would be to bright a projector but I also thought the gain might help in ambient light situations, is my thinking there flawed? Is gain only really good for low output projectors? Also I plan on setting it up properly and in eco mode as harpmaker suggests, lowering the fl somewhat.

Taking your recommendations I narrowed it down to a DIY grey (my preferred choice :T ) or the "120" EluneVision High Definition Cinema Grey" screen with a listed 1.1 gain, (my Dads preferred choice). Since it's his theatre I'll get him the manufactured screen. :innocent: Going to the smaller 120" will give more light to go to eco mode also negating that worry.

Any thoughts on the above screen? I like in DIY how you can pick your own shade of grey... what do manufactured screens come with, something like a N8 or is it a really light grey?

Thanks again for the help! I found the site way back when I bought my projector but stayed a lurker... :hide: I've had the ingredients for Black Widow to paint my BOC screen for ages but now I'm finally learning I really need a flat grey for my Epson EX71 light cannon (73fl !!). :duh:
 

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Thanks for the info Mechman and Harpmaker... I was worried it would be to bright a projector but I also thought the gain might help in ambient light situations, is my thinking there flawed? Is gain only really good for low output projectors?
Gain is a confusing topic, mainly because there is so much misinformation about it. Some DIY screen forums, and even screen manufacturers, treat gain as just another image brightness control that can be turned up or down with no ramifications. I wish that were true, but it isn't. Whenever a standard specular reflective screen, no matter what it's shade, has it's gain increased the center of the screen will be brighter than the edges of the screen for those seated on-axis with the PJ. For small additions in gain this effect is usually not visible, but as gain is increased the center of the screen gets brighter and the edges get dimmer until finally the brightness difference becomes visible and hot spotting occurs. Now the screen you were asking about first was a glass beaded screen which means the increased gain is achieved via retroreflection which is a totally different animal than specular reflection. Below is a graphic explaining the 3 basic types of reflective surfaces.

The diffuse reflector would equate to a screen made with the flat finish paint.
The specular reflector would equate to a mirror.
The retroreflector is usually a surface coated with glass beads (like license plates and road signs).



Glass beads use both internal reflection and refraction to bend the light rays entering them to a point at the base of the bead where they try to exit the bead; if there is a reflective coating under the bead the light is reflected back into the bead and is sent back to the viewer with similar ray angles as when the light entered the bead. Below is another graphic showing that.



Glass beads are not perfect retroreflectors so you can view such a screen off-axis from the PJ and still see an image, but image brightness decreases rapidly the further you move off-axis. Due to the reflective nature of a glass beaded screen hot spotting isn't much of an issue with them, but viewing angle is. Also, because of the massive amount of refraction taking place the off-axis image can have it's colors shifted as well.

Taking your recommendations I narrowed it down to a DIY grey (my preferred choice :T ) or the "120" EluneVision High Definition Cinema Grey" screen with a listed 1.1 gain, (my Dads preferred choice). Since it's his theatre I'll get him the manufactured screen. :innocent: Going to the smaller 120" will give more light to go to eco mode also negating that worry.

Any thoughts on the above screen? I like in DIY how you can pick your own shade of grey... what do manufactured screens come with, something like a N8 or is it a really light grey?
I have heard both good and bad things about EluneVision screens. Being a less expensive screen I would be concerned about it developing waves. I don't know what N level there gray screens are. This screen would be primarily a diffusive screen with enough specular gloss added to up it's gain a bit.

Thanks again for the help! I found the site way back when I bought my projector but stayed a lurker... :hide: I've had the ingredients for Black Widow to paint my BOC screen for ages but now I'm finally learning I really need a flat grey for my Epson EX71 light cannon (73fl !!). :duh:
It's just the nature of the game for forums to have far more lurkers than participants, no worries. :T There are many, many more screens out there using our mixes than we know about because we try to give enough information for people to make them and not have to ask questions (although questions are welcome). We design our mixes to be simple to make and apply. To top everything off, with the brightness of today's PJ's reflectively enhanced mixes are becoming a niche item, most folks can use a simple off-the-shelf paint to make their screen.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Wow, thanks Harpmaker for going to all the effort to explain in such detail! It's always great to learn something new!
 

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Any thoughts on the above screen? I like in DIY how you can pick your own shade of grey... what do manufactured screens come with, something like a N8 or is it a really light grey?
I've never asked for anything from EluneVision. Someday I probably will. :huh: I've never heard bad things about them.

There are som manufactured screens that go down to N8. Some even go lower - Stewart Firehawk for example. They usually are trying to control the light in some other fashion than a diy paint.
 

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I've never asked for anything from EluneVision. Someday I probably will. :huh: I've never heard bad things about them.
I thought I read about some people that had problems with their screen material being uneven or wavy, but I could be misremembering that and it was a different manufacturer.
 
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