[Zakk]

Let me start by saying I know the room is WAY smaller than ideal, but I have no other options. I am looking for input on the speaker placement with my current wall configuration as I do not have the room to precisely follow the Dolby Atmos guidelines and none of the walls can be moved. Since a picture is worth a thousand words, I am attaching a diagram that I think will explain my current plan. One obvious problem is that there is no room to place the speakers farther than a few inches behind the listening position in the rear row.

A few notes:
• This is a dedicated theater space
•Considering a Yamaha 3050, 2060, or 3060
• I want to optimize this for action and sci-fi movies
• I am adding a soffit around the sides and back into which speakers can be installed or hung from (as well as baffles)

I am very interested in knowing if Atmos will work with this type of available positioning and/or with a room this size.

 

[JBrax]

I would suggest going with only one row of seating first off. Second, I think that screen is going to be too large for that room. I'm not sure how good the separation is going to be with all of those speakers clustered together in such a tight space? Most of us have to make concessions and work with what we have though.

 

[bpape]

Agreed. If you must have 2 rows, a 2 and 3 configuration would be better. The rear 2 corner seats will be pretty much unusable sitting in corners. The screen is definitely pushing and forcing front speakers into corners - which also precludes bass control in the room. Lastly, with the 2 rows, the front row head position is very very close to center front to back which will put you in all of the room modes and your bass response will be all over the place.

 

[willis7469]

I agree with Jeff. Sometimes less is more, and putting 10lbs of stuff in a 5lb bag just to say it's in there can sometimes be mostly for pride. I would also go with a single row and try to do 5.2.4. Rear surrounds (ala 7.1) should have at least 4-5' behind the LP and putting them there for the sake of having them just won't add anything and will be a distraction more than an immersion. Also by getting a single row of seats off the rear wall will give you better bass response and allow the atmos speakers to be placed properly. It also looks like with 2 rows, the front row will be in the center of the room, which will be a bass vacuum. The extra money not spent on second row seating and rear surrounds could be spent on sound treatment which would be money better spent imo. The mains being so close to the walls will need some help, and bass traps won't hurt either.


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[Zakk]

Guys, I greatly appreciate and really value the feedback. I should add a few bits of information to clarify where I am in the process and what I am ok with changing.
• I have already ordered 7 theater seats and there is no changing that, plus I need the 7 seating positions.
• If the bass response in the front row sucks (as you have all agreed it will), I am actually ok with that since the front row will mostly be for kids
• I already have the screen and am very happy with the size
• I am open to changing the speakers to fit beneath the screen (screen is 36" off the floor)
• I am open to using more or less surround speakers and moving their placement
• I am adding a layer of QuietRock w/ Green Glue to all the walls, sound deadening panels on all the walls, sound insulation in the attic, solid door (not sure what to do with this yet), and deadening all the outlets

My original plan for this room was to move eliminate a wall and make a larger space, but this turned out to be nearly impossible for structural reasons.

Thanks again for your input and continued help with ideas.

 

[bpape]

The front row will still sound better than the back row. The back row will have a really really hard time with dialog intelligibility and surround field. If the screen is returnable, I would get a smaller one and allow you to move both rows forward - front away from center length and rear away from the wall behind - then treat that wall with 6-8" thick panels with a limp membrane to minimize mid and high absorption and just concentrate on the lows and lower mids which will be what is causing the issues.

 

[ellisr63]

If the screen is too big for your liking...just make some black panels to matt it...then in the future if you get a bigger room, you don't have to buy another screen.

 

[willis7469]

Yes I forgot to include the surround field being compromised in the back row up against the wall too. That would effect my decision probably more than questionable bass performance. I'm a believer in surround speaker performance just as much as the fronts for the best experience. I might cancel the other row of seats if not shipped yet and let the kids have beanbags or something. I'm possibly a bit more selfish though and for all the expense, I would focus on adult experience. Ron and Brian have given good advice also.


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[fschris]

just my 2 cents.... forget about green gluing your walls... just buy as much OC703 as you can afford and double that up on your walls...

http://www.buyinsulationproductstore.com/owens-corning-703-fiberglass-acoustic-board-4-3/

these are some of the best prices i have found and will make a huge difference in your bass response.

i plan to triple these up ... line the walls and hang some on the ceiling wrapped in black GOM fabric.

 

[fschris]

i second the bean bags... i have a 12 by 18 room and im just doing one row and bean bags if people want them. i also am looking for a narrow reclining love seat for 2.

 

[fschris]

Just another option.. look at the emotiva BASX line of products... would be nice ... good price as well.

 

[willis7469]

Hi zakk. You mentioned moving the screen up and putting the speakers under the screen. My personal feeling is that mains need to be to the sides of the screen so that off screen pans can follow the horizontal line off to the sides. Everyone's mileage may differ but I thought that was worth noting.


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[fschris]

Get an ATS screen!

We will spend your money here...

 

[Zakk]

Thanks again to everyone for taking their time to give me feedback on this. I am really not open to changing the seating configuration and I am not looking for a different screen or to move the screen. I will add sound absorbing panels and bass traps. I am open to using more or less speakers, but nothing in the room is being put there just for show (or "ego").

To get back to my original inquiry, I am trying to simply determine if there is a way to make Atmos work in this space or if I am better off sticking with 5.1 or 7.1 surround. I have various surround speakers and two sets of mains to choose from, but I am willing to get other speakers (like dipoles), if they would make more sense for the space. The only thing I will not do is eliminate a row of seats so the seating layout I showed is what we have to work with here. Based on this, I am trying to determine the best speaker position and configuration.

I do not mean to come off as combative about the feedback, it is just that all the suggestions are not working within the parameters of the project. Ideally my room would be 5 feet wider and 10 feet deeper, but it is simply not possible so I am trying to make the most out of the space I have and the number of seats I am getting.

 

[JBrax]

I think you could still make Atmos work with 2 ceiling speakers in the middle of the room. Forget trying 2 back speakers with the current seating arrangement. 2 side speakers is doable although not ideal if anyone is sitting in the outside seats of the rear.

 

[ellisr63]

Thanks again to everyone for taking their time to give me feedback on this. I am really not open to changing the seating configuration and I am not looking for a different screen or to move the screen. I will add sound absorbing panels and bass traps. I am open to using more or less speakers, but nothing in the room is being put there just for show (or "ego").

To get back to my original inquiry, I am trying to simply determine if there is a way to make Atmos work in this space or if I am better off sticking with 5.1 or 7.1 surround. I have various surround speakers and two sets of mains to choose from, but I am willing to get other speakers (like dipoles), if they would make more sense for the space. The only thing I will not do is eliminate a row of seats so the seating layout I showed is what we have to work with here. Based on this, I am trying to determine the best speaker position and configuration.

I do not mean to come off as combative about the feedback, it is just that all the suggestions are not working within the parameters of the project. Ideally my room would be 5 feet wider and 10 feet deeper, but it is simply not possible so I am trying to make the most out of the space I have and the number of seats I am getting.

I don't think anyone was saying that your setup was for show or ego, but i can tell you that my listening area is about 20' long and 19' wide, and I removed my seating in the 2nd row as it is just to close to the rear wall.

 

[JBrax]

Thanks again to everyone for taking their time to give me feedback on this. I am really not open to changing the seating configuration and I am not looking for a different screen or to move the screen. I will add sound absorbing panels and bass traps. I am open to using more or less speakers, but nothing in the room is being put there just for show (or "ego").

To get back to my original inquiry, I am trying to simply determine if there is a way to make Atmos work in this space or if I am better off sticking with 5.1 or 7.1 surround. I have various surround speakers and two sets of mains to choose from, but I am willing to get other speakers (like dipoles), if they would make more sense for the space. The only thing I will not do is eliminate a row of seats so the seating layout I showed is what we have to work with here. Based on this, I am trying to determine the best speaker position and configuration.

I do not mean to come off as combative about the feedback, it is just that all the suggestions are not working within the parameters of the project. Ideally my room would be 5 feet wider and 10 feet deeper, but it is simply not possible so I am trying to make the most out of the space I have and the number of seats I am getting.

I don't think anyone was saying that your setup was for show or ego, but i can tell you that my listening area is about 20' long and 19' wide, and I removed my seating in the 2nd row as it is just to close to the rear wall.

Mine is 30' X 20' and I feel it is too small.

 

[willis7469]

My bad. The ego point was made by me, but was my fault for not making it clear I wasn't talking about the OP. What I meant by that was I've seen it before where people just HAVE to have every box checked. Since zakk came here looking for advice I didn't think that was the case so I didn't think I needed to clarify.
So after all that, I say go 5.2 with dipoles. Maybe go for 5.2.2 but don't waste any money on 7ch.


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[ellisr63]

My bad. The ego point was made by me, but was my fault for not making it clear I wasn't talking about the OP. What I meant by that was I've seen it before where people just HAVE to have every box checked. Since zakk came here looking for advice I didn't think that was the case so I didn't think I needed to clarify.
So after all that, I say go 5.2 with dipoles. Maybe go for 5.2.2 but don't waste any money on 7ch.


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I would def go for at least 2 subs. :T

 

[Zakk]

Hi zakk. You mentioned moving the screen up and putting the speakers under the screen. My personal feeling is that mains need to be to the sides of the screen so that off screen pans can follow the horizontal line off to the sides. Everyone's mileage may differ but I thought that was worth noting.

To be accurate, I did not say anything about moving the screen at all, but I have speakers that will fit beneath the screen if there is an advantage to that. My current main speakers are Polk LS90s (L-C-R) which I love the sound of, but I also have a pair of Klipsch that are shorter. Both are probably fine for theater purposes, but the Polk blow away the Klipsch for music listening. I mentioned this in response to Bryan Pape's comment "The screen is definitely pushing and forcing front speakers into corners - which also precludes bass control in the room"

So after all that, I say go 5.2 with dipoles. Maybe go for 5.2.2 but don't waste any money on 7ch.

Since 5.2.2 is 7 channels (as far as I understand the nomenclature), I assume you mean not to waste the money on the 7.2.4, correct? So, would your suggestion be to use the dipoles for the height effects? I am not clear on which speakers you are suggesting to eliminate. Let's assume, for a moment that my receiver will have 9 channel capability and I already have the speakers (I am testing SVS surrounds and effects right now, but I really love my B&W Rock Solid Monitors and have enough for either configuration), would you still suggest 5.2.2 over 7.2.4? I am wondering if there is actually an advantage to the 5.2.2 in my situation (taking money out of the equation). Any dipoles you like?

Mine is 30' X 20' and I feel it is too small.

I have space envy! Your space is nearly 4 times the size of mine! You know the famous quote "I cried because I only had a 600 sq ft theater until I met the man who only had a 150 sq ft theater"? They were talking about you! :wink2::crying2:

I think you could still make Atmos work with 2 ceiling speakers in the middle of the room. Forget trying 2 back speakers with the current seating arrangement. 2 side speakers is doable although not ideal if anyone is sitting in the outside seats of the rear.

Do you think the rear ceiling speakers would make it sound worse or just no big advantage? I assume you would recommend the ceiling speakers over wall mounting the height effects, correct? Would you recommend dipoles for the side effects?

Get an ATS screen!

We will spend your money here...

Why? I love my Silver Ticket screen

Just another option.. look at the emotiva BASX line of products... would be nice ... good price as well.

I am not familiar with their equipment beyond what I have read on their site? Do you feel these are better than the Yamaha RXA2060 and 3060 receivers?