Home Theater Forum and Systems banner

121 - 140 of 144 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
333 Posts
Discussion Starter #121 (Edited)
Another alternate driver found - the Dayton Titanic TIT280C-4. It's not quite an ideal match for this design, but it's close enough to work. The horn flare of the design is actually a little more ideal for the Dayton than the SDX, as long as the specs on the driver are accurate.

Standard disclaimer: I haven't tried it so I don't know for sure how it does. It should work fine. Not as good as the Seas driver would likely be, but way cheaper.

Hornresp file attached.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
255 Posts
Hi,

For a variety of reasons, which I won't go into, the current SDX10 will continue though we will likely run out of stock before the next shipment arrives.

Thanks for you support
Bob
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
333 Posts
Discussion Starter #123
Good to know. The SDX10 will always be the preferred driver for this design.

Incidentally, I have a new video I forgot to post:


That's both horns, but it gives you some idea on how these handle info below the designed F3. Remember, mine are also highpassed at 12Hz via the Reckhorn B-2.

Current number of these designs out in the wild is at 5, mine included. Everyone seems happy so far.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
333 Posts
Discussion Starter #124
Updating this thread again due the fact that I now have actual electrical impedance measurements for this beast. This will show how close I got to the model. I did a lot better on this one than my last TH design, I have to say. My dual Tang Band horn measures nothing like the model as far as electrical impedance.

Hornresp model:



Impedance measurement with phase:

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
314 Posts
Insane build...impressive! CSS isn't far from where I live and I have been running a couple Trio12's for a while now, so maybe an SDX build is in the cards!!

Question though....does having the back end of the drivers sticking out into the "horn" affect sound quality at all? I do know that when I was making my ported subs, I was always told to keep the ports clean to avoid port noise and whistling.

Does the same not apply to horn configurations?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,116 Posts
Insane build...impressive! CSS isn't far from where I live and I have been running a couple Trio12's for a while now, so maybe an SDX build is in the cards!!

Question though....does having the back end of the drivers sticking out into the "horn" affect sound quality at all? I do know that when I was making my ported subs, I was always told to keep the ports clean to avoid port noise and whistling.

Does the same not apply to horn configurations?
Not really. It blocks some of the surface area, but relatively little compared to total size. Having a driver in path is common for horn designs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
333 Posts
Discussion Starter #129
Question though....does having the back end of the drivers sticking out into the "horn" affect sound quality at all? I do know that when I was making my ported subs, I was always told to keep the ports clean to avoid port noise and whistling.
Yes... that's the whole idea of the tapped horn configuration, or whatever else you want to call it. Use both sides of the diaphragm to contribute to output.

That said, you do have to be careful about choking the horn with the drivers. That was something I paid special attention to. You choke the horn with the drivers, it can cause all kinds of annoying noises; not to mention restrict the SPL output and increase distortion. Also, it's possible for the folds themselves to cause enough turbulence to ruin the sound. Too much air moving too fast around the bends gives you noises and distortion. Thankfully, I seem to have avoided that one too.

Me, I'm broke. That meant I had to be extra careful, because I had to nail it the first time. No do-overs for me. So, I left as much space under the drivers as I thought would be needed, and then I left a little more. I like to err on the side of caution, even if it ends up making the final box bigger than it could have been made had I pushed the limits a bit more.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
114 Posts
I've been looking around for my next project, this looks pretty awesome. I've wanted a pair of monster THs to add to the collection.

I've noticed reading through the thread that a number of alternate driver possibilities have been mentioned and I wonder if anyone has put any thought into the TC Sounds Epic 10?

This project looks great though, so far, it's at the top of my short list.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
333 Posts
Discussion Starter #133
Good choice :D

Really, the SDXs are the only drivers confirmed beyond a doubt to work with the design. And you wouldn't get much if any more SPL from the TC Sounds drivers anyway. The design could be made a little smaller, but that's about it. There's really only so much you can do with a couple 10" drivers, and I really think I've gotten about as much out of them as I'm likely to get.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
114 Posts
So, now that I've had a chance to go back and read through the whole thread, I did have a couple of questions about something you touched on, that these subs won't do music particularly well.

Could you elaborate a bit more?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
333 Posts
Discussion Starter #135
They'll do music just fine... just not as well as a tapped horn using more optimal drivers with a more optimal horn flare, like my older dual Tang Band design. There's a slight audible difference to me, but it's very slight. And since the drivers I used in the TB horn are no longer available, it's a moot point anyway.

Watched Project X with the two last week... there's lots of party music in that movie that uses subharmonic synths to drop the bassline an octave. The horns had no problem kicking me in the chest when needed, while at the same time rumbling away at high levels down below 20Hz until stuff started falling off the walls. Sounded excellent. And loud.

That said, in theory, the Seas L26ROY should sound a little better in this design. But, I haven't tried them and haven't measured them to know that they would work as well. And they're more expensive. It's up to you if you want to gamble with them. I'd like to get my hands on a pair of those to see how they do, but I'm broke. It's not happening anytime soon.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
114 Posts
They'll do music just fine... just not as well as a tapped horn using more optimal drivers with a more optimal horn flare, like my older dual Tang Band design. There's a slight audible difference to me, but it's very slight. And since the drivers I used in the TB horn are no longer available, it's a moot point anyway.

Watched Project X with the two last week... there's lots of party music in that movie that uses subharmonic synths to drop the bassline an octave. The horns had no problem kicking me in the chest when needed, while at the same time rumbling away at high levels down below 20Hz until stuff started falling off the walls. Sounded excellent. And loud.

That said, in theory, the Seas L26ROY should sound a little better in this design. But, I haven't tried them and haven't measured them to know that they would work as well. And they're more expensive. It's up to you if you want to gamble with them. I'd like to get my hands on a pair of those to see how they do, but I'm broke. It's not happening anytime soon.
Sounds good, puts me at ease. One of my favorite things to do after a couple of beers is put on some Feed Me or deadmau5 and have a little party, I'm thinking these will fit right in.

I'd be happy to try the L26ROY but that'd blow my budget and I'd only be able to make one, plus according to the specs from Madisound, they don't look like their power handling is quite as rugged and I'm planning on hitting these pretty hard with an EP2000.

Once I get a long enough stretch of spare time and get everything ordered (so far I've only ordered speakon connectors and I don't want to order parts till I know I can devote some build time or it'll make me nuts) I'll throw up some contruction pics into the mix.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
333 Posts
Discussion Starter #137 (Edited)
Sounds good. One channel of the EP is more than enough to power one horn at 8 ohms each channel (2 total) or two horns at 2 ohms each channel (4 total). Because they'll be getting more than 350W each, it's important to highpass properly if you're going to hit them hard. My usual recommendation is a MiniDSP.

The design is excursion limited with both the L26ROY and the SDX10. If you give them enough power to blow the coils, you will have long since bounced them off the backplate and roached the drivers. But the EP4K is a good match for the design... one of these running in 8 ohms off each channel should keep most people very happy. One guy's pushing 200W to each of his and even that's more than enough SPL for him. I always suggest building another one if one at 400W isn't enough SPL. There's too much risk for not enough gain above that number.

deadmau5? I have Meowingtons Hax 2011 live on DVD. Not a challenge for the horns at all :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
114 Posts
The design is excursion limited with both the L26ROY and the SDX10. If you give them enough power to blow the coils, you will have long since bounced them off the backplate and roached the drivers.
Aha, this makes sense. I suppose the best way to do it then would be to wire them in series so each cab is 8 ohms. A miniDSP is a great idea for doing the HPF as it has the side benefit of doing a little room EQ as well.

deadmau5? I have Meowingtons Hax 2011 live on DVD. Not a challenge for the horns at all :D
Awesome, I love that dvd. You should check out this guy too:


Careful though, it starts pretty tame but takes off on some pretty nasty bass drops after about the 1 minute mark.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
333 Posts
Discussion Starter #139
Yeah, do 8 ohms unless you're building 3 or 4 of these.

Not worried about Feed Me. The horns can push 125dB at LP if I let them, and the room gives up before that point ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
333 Posts
Discussion Starter #140
Hmm... apparently I posted this update to the wrong thread. Doh! I knew things were getting too hectic in this house. Mods, feel free to delete the other post. Sorry about that, folks.

Anyway... I wanted to do a quick update to the proper thread with some bracing suggestions. If you do brace this horn, here's how I would currently do it:



Light colored wood is the vertical bracing, green is the horizontal bracing. Blue is removable horizontal bracing in the mouth... this will allow you to pull the brace out so you can install the drivers. I'd window the horizontal braces the same way the vertical ones are, just to tie them all together.

You don't have to do it exactly as I have... you can make it stronger as desired (like adding a removable vertical brace right at the mouth in front of the drivers, or corner bracing), but I wouldn't make it weaker. Don't add too much of it, or the response will deviate too much from the model. If you brace nothing else, get the mouth and throat segment done... in other words the areas on either side of the drivers. 1/2" plywood should be enough... that's all I used in my Tang Band horn.

Attached is the revised Sketchup file.
 

Attachments

121 - 140 of 144 Posts
Top