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Discussion Starter #1
I need to replace last summer's doable screen, and was hoping to start movie night a bit earlier so the young ones aren't asleep 30 minutes into the movie. I'm looking for a screen that rejects ambient light and (likely) provides as high a gain as possible. I have an Infocus x10 (~1000 lumens as used), and would like a screen in the 120" range if possible. I've solicited (and received) advice elsewhere, and would like to get opinions (and measurements if they exist) to help with my decision. Over there, silver fire on sintra has been recommended, and appears to be a pretty good choice given my requirements. I am not so worried about hotspotting nor (slight) color shifts if it means a viewable screen 20-30 minutes earlier than the doable allowed. I've seen the SF review and my only worry with SF is viewing cone. Are there any recommendations here that would work well for my needs? Again, I'm not going for perfection (that is what the indoor screen is for!), and would really like to just be able to start the movies a bit earlier and not look like total garbage once it is dark out.
Thanks!
 

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You might try the DNP Supernova Epic screen. Sorry but i'm just not that rich & i don't own one, mine is homemade but in a dedicated cimema & hifi room :) Same size as what you are after incidentally @ 120".

Apologies for not being of more help :dontknow:

My sincere apologies, i really ought to read things more carefully - outdoor screen indeed :) I'll crawl back under my rock :D
 

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Welcome to the Shack if I haven't already said that!

There really isn't any such thing as a screen that 'rejects' ambient light, but I know what you mean.

Does the x10 have 1000 video optimized lumens or is that raw lumen output?

Dusk is still not going to have a great image, just think of your local drive in when they start the first movie before it's totally dark...

With a 120" diagonal screen you'll have roughly 11fL of brightness, which isn't going to work well with lights let alone sunlight. If you would be willing to drop down to around 110" diagonal you can bring your fL up and should be able to handle a Scorpion at dusk, and it will only get better and better looking as the sun goes down.

Some things you can do to help is to try and set your screen up with the setting sun behind it and not shining directly on the front of the screen.
Outside viewing typically isn't expected to be videophile quality, but that doesn't mean it has to be bad either. You might even be interested in a high gain BW screen we played around with for a church setup.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
1000 lumens is not calibrated, it is basically torch mode, but with green toned down a bit. 110 might be fine... whatever I paint, I think I will start with 120" without a border and trim to size based on the image.
Thanks... can you give me a link to the high gain BW?
 

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Hi Doug,

First off, no DIY (and very few commercial) screens can literally reject ambient light since that takes a screen surface that has regular, near-microscopic grooves, valleys or lenticulations to achieve; but I get your point. I also see wbassett already addressed this... I type slow.

The answer to combating ambient light is projector brightness coupled with a dark screen, you really can't do a proper job if you lack either one. It also depends a great deal on how much image quality you are willing to lose to obtain your goal.

You are correct to worry about viewing cone issues with "high gain" screens, the added gain has to come at a price, and at a minimum that price will be a narrower viewing cone. Mech's gain charts can be found here. If you look at the SF charts (they are all the same SF mix) you will see that the gain was at maximum 1.04, but after the viewing angle passes 15 degrees (that would equal a 30 degree viewing cone) the gain begins to drop below a Black Widow™ screen so the image on the SF screen from that point on would be dimmer than on the BW™ screen that some of those "over there" like to belittle as being too dark and absorbing too much light. Also please know that the gain numbers they like to throw around "over there" are just guesses at best, but if you question them they will get downright unfriendly in a hurry. The gain numbers we quote here are either from manufacturers (for commercial screens) or from testing we have done using the same procedures used in the screen industry. They don't like our gain numbers "over there", I wonder why? Could it be that the facts get in the way of advertising? :whistling:

We have yet to develop an outdoor screen mix, but BW™ should work just fine if an exterior paint is used as the base. The reflective ingredient used (AAA-F) is an automotive paint so it should stand up to exterior conditions very well. I doubt that SF would weather all that well even if exterior UPW was used to make it since it is mostly interior craft paints. The same goes for their SILVER mix except that it is 100% interior paints.

If I was going to make a permanent exterior screen I would use BW™ made with exterior latex enamel. If I wanted to add more gain to the mix I would use an eggshell base rather than a flat base. If more gain was needed I would change to a satin base, although that would almost certainly hot spot. You could try mixing eggshell and satin together until you reached the desired effect. At this time, we are not recommending adding polyurethane to screen mixes.

I'm not sure where Bill is getting that 11 fL. number from. :huh: For a 120" 16:9 screen the PJC has 28 fL. in video mode and 56 fL. in presentation mode.

I agree that Sintra would make a very good substrate. While it is relatively expensive, I would use the stuff that is around 1/4" thick. It should be possible to paint it many times so you can try different mixes until you get what you want. It should even be possible to use alcohol or xylene to dissolve and remove the old paint if needed.
 

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My apologies, I had the wrong projector selected... first time I ever made that mistake.

If you have 28fL and are using a new bulb, you can handle Black Widow with no problem.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks... any links to 'high gain' BW mix, or is it as simple as changing the gloss in the base?
 

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This is the link to the High Gain Black Widow. Keep in mind that it is not neutral and will more than likely hot spot - kinda sounds like Silver Fire. We were working on this in the background when that member needed a monstrous screen that wasn't going to be used for a home theater setup. Not being neutral didn't matter to him.

With 28fL, I'd do as Bill said - Black Widow. If you need it a tad darker yet Harp can set you up.

Silver Fire's viewing cone is awful for a paint. Maurice will tell you otherwise but he's full of it (ask him for all of his measures of gain and RGB values - that'll be a hoot!). And it's not so much the cone itself it's the awful hot spotting. You can see in the photos the huge change from center to a foot or two to either side. That's quite the drop off. I believe I even measured it with the spotmeter and it was very pronounced. The other problem that you're gonna have is the massive amount of polyurethane in Silver Fire. If your screen will be exposed to direct sunlight it will yellow quickly. So buy extra paint. And you may want to print out the formula cause by the time you need it again it will have changed. :rofl2:

Is Maurice still trolling for customers at avs? :thumbsdown: One of the best things I've ever done in my life is to stop reading the trash at diy screens forum at avs. It's akin to reading the Enquirer.

Let us know either way what you decide. :T
 

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Thanks... any links to 'high gain' BW mix, or is it as simple as changing the gloss in the base?
Making the base of any mix glossier will increase it's gain, but a little bit of gloss goes a long way and it doesn't take much to become too much and start hot spotting. I would be fairly comfortable using Valspar or Behr eggshell latex enamel to make any of our screen mixes, but that isn't a recommendation to do so since we haven't tested such yet. We have concentrated on designing mixes that have as wide a viewing cone as possible since they are usable in a wider number of HT situations. High gain screens are more special purpose screens.

To be frank, some of the people at "the other place" treat screen gain like it is the deciding factor on what mix to use in any situation and anything providing less than a 1.0 gain will perform "less than optimal" and should not be used if a higher gain mix can be applied. This is very misleading and simply not true. There are "authorities" over there that like to pretend they understand how front projection screens work when they clearly don't. Don't take my word for it, read what they have actually written there and check the facts out for yourself. As for screen gain, any white screen that has a gain over 1.0 will have a smaller viewing cone than the white 1.0 screen - that is simple physics. As the color of the screen darkens, and it maintains the same 1.0 gain, the screen will have smaller and smaller viewing cones as the color gets darker and darker since it must maintain a given level of brightness to be comparable to a white 1.0 screen. Also keep in mind that the brightness difference between a white 1.0 screen and a white 1.3 screen is only a 1/3rd f-stop (to use photography lingo) difference, which is about the smallest difference the human eye can detect even though it is a 33% change. This is why the human eye makes a horrible light meter and why we can't determine the gain of a screen just by looking at it. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #11
thanks for the help... will an eggshell base go on just as well with a roller as the flat?
Thanks.
 

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thanks for the help... will an eggshell base go on just as well with a roller as the flat?
Thanks.
When you change the base of any of our mixes to anything besides a flat latex enamel you are entering uncharted waters. This is testing we have on our "to do" list, but other things come first. Since eggshell has a bit more gloss than flat it would also probably be a bit harder to roll on without getting visible roller marks, but it can probably be done.

The higher gain a mix is the harder it is to roll without roller marks, this is why SF has been a "spray only" mix until just recently - which is interesting in itself since the mix hasn't changed lately...:sneeky:
 
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