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Discussion Starter #1
Anyone have any experience with them? A search of this forum using "ELAC" produced no results.

I'm looking for a sub to pair with my KEF LS50W speakers. My room is small (10'x12'x9') and I have DIY soffit traps around the wall/ceiling junction along with "superchunk" traps in the front corners.

I was initially considering an SVS SB-1000 but the auto-EQ of the Elacs has me curious. This is a music-only setup and with the small room space is at a premium.

Bill
 

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There is no comparison, the Elac S10EQ has a frequency response of only 28-150Hz and the S12EQ is only slightly better at 25Hz. The so called auto EQ is just an APP on the phone that alows for some adjustment but nothing ground shattering.

The SVS sb1000 would out preform the 10" sub in a heartbeat and sound much better for music. The S12EQ is slightly better in regards to weight of the cabinate but I do still wonder if its really a better all around sub.
 

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+1

The Elac speakers designed by Andrew Jones are quite nice, but the subs not so much. Along with the SB-1000 there are a few SB12-NSD's still available, so that one might be worth considering as well.
 

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There is no comparison, the Elac S10EQ has a frequency response of only 28-150Hz and the S12EQ is only slightly better at 25Hz. The so called auto EQ is just an APP on the phone that alows for some adjustment but nothing ground shattering.

The SVS sb1000 would out preform the 10" sub in a heartbeat and sound much better for music. The S12EQ is slightly better in regards to weight of the cabinate but I do still wonder if its really a better all around sub.
I cannot comment on your conclusions because I have no personal experience with any of these subs. However, the app is more sophisticated than you credit it. The autoEQ is based on measuring the back EMF of the driver in the cabinet and loaded by room modes in its particular position in the room. Whether it works or not, someone will have to test it........................

EDIT: The comment below from wgb1202 is correct. My note above is based on Andrew's description of how one tunes the in-wall subs since they are shipped without back-boxes.
 
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Discussion Starter #5
There is no comparison, the Elac S10EQ has a frequency response of only 28-150Hz and the S12EQ is only slightly better at 25Hz. The so called auto EQ is just an APP on the phone that alows for some adjustment but nothing ground shattering.

The SVS sb1000 would out preform the 10" sub in a heartbeat and sound much better for music. The S12EQ is slightly better in regards to weight of the cabinate but I do still wonder if its really a better all around sub.
My understanding of the way the app works is that you measure the sub in the near field where room modes/gain are non-existent. Since the anechoic frequency response of the sub is known those near field measurements are then "adjusted" or "accounted for" given the inaccuracies of the mic being used. You then take another measurement at the listening position and the app adjusts the EQ to sound as close to that target response it ships with from the factory as possible (not perfectly flat due to real-world room modes).

Andrew Jones gave a very thorough response to some of the same concerns over on AVS and it does make sense, given all that I've read from Toole and others at Harman who have done a lot of solid research over the last decade or more.

I'm sure the SVS is a strong performer, I use a PC+ in my theater system, but the ease of the plug and play options the Elac offers at such a low price point make it very appealing.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
+1

The Elac speakers designed by Andrew Jones are quite nice, but the subs not so much. Along with the SB-1000 there are a few SB12-NSD's still available, so that one might be worth considering as well.
Have you spent some time with the Elacs? What about them didn't you like?

Thanks for the heads up on the SB12-NSD.
 

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I'm not really a fan of unnecessary, and those subs have a few such items. That's surprising given Andrew's stock in trade is not to waste time or money on things with dubious value.

If Elac wanted to create an app to control the subwoofer that's probably a good idea, seeing as how the world is filled with people who suffer withdrawal if they put their phone down for more than 5 minutes. That gives those folks another thing to fiddle with. But be smart about it and do what SVS did; make it in addition to normal controls, not in lieu of. Why deliberately cut off market share when you don't have to?

In addition, their EQ system seems to bring almost no value, just cost. Except for the most basic AVR, you're going to get some type of sub EQ with your sound processor. That makes Elac's all but superfluous. Their variant may be better than the base sub EQ with really inexpensive receivers, but it's very unlikely those same people are going to be buying an Elac sub because they're priced high relative to the competition; if you bought an inexpensive receive it's almost a guarantee the same budget restrictions will be applied to the sub. And it uses the phones mic for sampling? That's probably a $2 OEM part, restricted by a tiny aperture no less. How accurate can it really be?
 

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I agree Jim, another point is once "you set it, forget it". Ive had my PB13u set in my theater room for 8 years now and set it up, made the correct adjustments over a few days and have not touched it since.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I'm not really a fan of unnecessary, and those subs have a few such items. That's surprising given Andrew's stock in trade is not to waste time or money on things with dubious value.

If Elac wanted to create an app to control the subwoofer that's probably a good idea, seeing as how the world is filled with people who suffer withdrawal if they put their phone down for more than 5 minutes. That gives those folks another thing to fiddle with. But be smart about it and do what SVS did; make it in addition to normal controls, not in lieu of. Why deliberately cut off market share when you don't have to?

In addition, their EQ system seems to bring almost no value, just cost. Except for the most basic AVR, you're going to get some type of sub EQ with your sound processor. That makes Elac's all but superfluous. Their variant may be better than the base sub EQ with really inexpensive receivers, but it's very unlikely those same people are going to be buying an Elac sub because they're priced high relative to the competition; if you bought an inexpensive receive it's almost a guarantee the same budget restrictions will be applied to the sub. And it uses the phones mic for sampling? That's probably a $2 OEM part, restricted by a tiny aperture no less. How accurate can it really be?
Jim,

It seems you're dismissing the Elac subs based on a lot of assumptions but no experience. Also, as noted in my original post, I'm looking for a sub for a music only system. Not only that, but it's an nontraditional music system in that both preamp and power amp (and DAC) are built into the speakers so I have no type of sub EQ built in. The closest thing I have to that is utilizing the new parametric EQ facilities built into the latest version of Roon. That would require making measurements with my UMIK-1 and REW, manually trying to dial in the sub, manually trying to make good EQ adjustments and hoping I got it all right.

The set-it-and-forget-it approach that Elac's taking is much more attractive, assuming it produces good results.

Are there any other sub makers out there providing anything similar to Elac at the price point? Or a combination of sub & other auto-EQ device?

Bill
 

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Bill, dont forget that the Elac sub uses the built in mic on the phone as Jim already pointed out. That there is already a bad idea as they are not by any stretch of the imagination good quality or sensitive enough to take the kind of readings that are needed to auto EQ a sub.

REW is a much better tool and you would find that your results would be much better using the manual adjustments of a Sub like SVS. There is no such thing as a "music only sub" or "musical sub" if the sub is built well it will handle music just as well as movies.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I'm confident in using the phone's mic because of the method Elac is using.

I will admit that my biggest concern is that there are NO physical controls to fall back on. I'm tied to an app that may/may not be supported some years down the line.

And the SVS' are nicer looking IMO.

Bill
 

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I'm confident in using the phone's mic because of the method Elac is using.
Now whose making assumptions?

You may very well fall into the market segment that Elac was targeting; no sub processing and willing to pay extra to get it. If the product fits your needs than you know what to buy, but your arguments for the value of those features only applies to people in your situation. For the vast majority they simply won't.
 

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There's definitely a targeted demographic for this. People want convenience and that's great. I just can't believe that the mic in a phone can do justice to this. , even some spl meters use correction curves. Plus phone mics are contoured for human voice. The software may be pretty good but I just don't believe in the hardware.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Maybe he explains it better than I do in regards to using the mic on a smartphone:


Again, the thing that worries me is the lack of physical controls due to unknown future support of the app.
 

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I'm sorry folks but most of you have no experience with either of these subs and have no business talking about them other than to perhaps quote facts, figures and reviews. (Ok, ok, it's what we do here and I'm occasionally just as guilty :cool: )

I happen to have an SB2000 and an Elac 12EQ right now that I'm auditioning for the HT that I'm putting together. But I mostly listen to music. My main stereo rig is in another area of the house and uses PSB Synchrony One full range speakers that don't require a sub and sound terrific, though not perfect (is there such a thing?). That's my base line.

The HT uses Elac Uni-Fi UF5 towers, a PSB Synchrony One center (which cost more than the towers, and that's another story ), and a pair of older Sony 155 bookshelf speakers for the surrounds.

I've had the SVS2000 for over a month now and I've had a of a time dialing it in. Nice sub that goes low, but I've concluded it's just not up to my expectations for music. Not its fault, it's terrific for music, but it relatively inexpensive compared to the PSB's that I'm comparing it to. Let me stop here and explain that when I made SVS aware of my situation, they were terrific, telling me they would sell me an SB13 Ultra (which my budget wouldn't even let me consider) at a spectacular price and let me keep the SB2000 beyond the trial period for comparison. And I quote Gary their president, "We just want you to be happy." Kudos for this world class attitude.

So I disconnected the SB2000 and connected the Elac 12EQ. The app took a bit of fiddling to connect to bluetooth (not its fault, I didn't watch the youtube video on connecting). Unfortunately, the manual didn't have the link so that took a bit of research to learn about. I used my Samsung phone and followed the directions. This app is terrific, I accomplished in 2 minutes what I couldn't get done in a month experimenting with the SB2000. I tried various manual adjustments to improve the Elac's automatic equalization, but ended up going back to the automated settings. Now this is a bit unfair to the SVS because the Elac sub is voiced to match my Elac towers. And I'm fussy about my sound and not very good at doing manual equalization. I rely on MCACC on my Pioneer Elite SC-72, while only making a few adjustments to balance volumes at my listening position, never touching equalization, phase, etc.

Bottom line is I like the sound of the Elac sub which is priced in the same range as the SVS (there's a couple bargains from Amazon marketplace from time to time if you watch for them), even though it's still breaking in, and I'm not convinced yet it will be as clear and seamless as the PSB towers (yes, I know, apples and oranges), but if you don't have high expectations, how can you even aspire to them?

Will the EQ12 be as good as the SVS Ultra? More apples and oranges as the Ultra is 3 times the price at retail, but that's a separate issue from what we are talking about here. But I will say, I'm wishing the SVS had an automated app. I can't emphasize enough just how wonderful it works, and how much aggravation and time it eliminates.
 

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@pageman99 thanks for sharing your experience. The only thing holding me back from pulling the trigger on the Elac is I worry about Elac's future support of the app. As people change phones and operating systems progress will Elac commit to the constant maintenance updating that will be required.
 

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Valid point, and there is no ready answer. I've been involved in a few software startups and the best answer is to make the software as independent of the operatin g system as possible. Sometimes that's possible, sometimes not. Worse we have no way of knowing.

I will say this, given how convenient the setup was compared to traditional fiddling with knobs, this type of setup will be with us for a long time, imo. I also note that the new line of upscale subs from Elac has the same EQ software as the Debut line. I would say that all the subs use the same sw, so I don't think support will be an issue. That is, as long as Elac is active in our market, and they've been around a long, long time. Yet knobs need no support.

Pick your poison. Convenience vs the risk of becoming an orphan.

Btw, My Samsung Edge just upgraded to the newest version of Android and the app worked fine.
 

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I'm sorry folks but most of you have no experience with either of these subs and have no business talking about them other than to perhaps quote facts, figures and reviews.
Although you make a point and are somewhat true you don't have to hear a sub to be able to make a knolagable statement on the subject.

I accomplished in 2 minutes what I couldn't get done in a month experimenting with the SB2000. I tried various manual adjustments to improve the Elac's automatic equalization, but ended up going back to the automated settings. Now this is a bit unfair to the SVS because the Elac sub is voiced to match my Elac towers.
Again, now your making comments that cotradict the statement that you made at the top of your post. The flexibility of the parametric eq on the back of the SVS would accomplish more than the Elac if used correctly. Did you ever try using REW available here at the HTS?
On your second point about the Elac being voiced to your sub and Vic versa is also not true at all. There is no such thing regarding a properly designed sub. Voicing is irrelevant.
 
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Although you make a point and are somewhat true you don't have to hear a sub to be able to make a knolagable statement on the subject.


Again, now your making comments that cotradict the statement that you made at the top of your post. The flexibility of the parametric eq on the back of the SVS would accomplish more than the Elac if used correctly. Did you ever try using REW available here at the HTS?

On your second point about the Elac being voiced to your sub and Vic versa is also not true at all. There is no such thing regarding a properly designed sub. Voicing is irrelevant.
Sorry, but I suggest you download the Elac setup software app and run it in demo mode and tell me how it isn't moire powerful than the three knobs on the back of the SVS which only adjusts volume, phase and low pass filter cutoff frequency while the Elac has a complete equalizer tool as well as low pass, phase and volume.

As far as voicing, are you telling me that if Barbara Streisand and Tony Bennet sing the exact same note that their voices will sound exactly the same? The same applies to voicing of subs, they all have their own character.

And your own example just made the point that while one can make intelligent statements (which I readily agree with) about a sub (or any other part of a sound system), that only applies to quantitative differences, not qualitative differences. Now lets get back to the original topic and try to help the original poster with useful information.
 
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