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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just got an Epson 8350 for my basement and want to pain the screen. I am sort of new to all this and will try to provide as much info. as possible if someone can help me out.
I just mounted my Epson 8350 on the ceiling about 13 ft from the screen ( not much choice here).
The basement is 10 ft wide x 25 ft long. It has 3 windows at the direct opposit end of the room where the projection screen is with shades covering them so during the day I get some ambient light but none at night. the carpet is a dark green and the walls are a light yellow with a white ceiling. There are ceiling fans at both end of the room. We mainly watch it evening and night (movies, PS3, and DISH HD TV). I read about all the DIY screen info., but was a bit confused by it all and thought I could just get a basic rec. here. Thanks for any help anyone can provide.

If any more info. is needed let me know.
 

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Re: Black Widow PFG - the Discussion - Black Widow

I just got an Epson 8350 for my basement and want to pain the screen. I am sort of new to all this and will try to provide as much info. as possible if someone can help me out.
I just mounted my Epson 8350 on the ceiling about 13 ft from the screen ( not much choice here).
The basement is 10 ft wide x 25 ft long. It has 3 windows at the direct opposit end of the room where the projection screen is with shades covering them so during the day I get some ambient light but none at night. the carpet is a dark green and the walls are a light yellow with a white ceiling. There are ceiling fans at both end of the room. We mainly watch it evening and night (movies, PS3, and DISH HD TV). I read about all the DIY screen info., but was a bit confused by it all and thought I could just get a basic rec. here. Thanks for any help anyone can provide.

Epson 8350
contrast 50000:1
2200 lumens

If any more info. is needed let me know.
Wait for the experts to chime in, but with that amount of pj lumens and some ambient light (and lighter colored walls and ceiling) I would go with a medium or darker gray off the shelf paint or BW would be the ticket for my viewing preferences. I have a lesser quality but almost equally bright PJ at an 11 foot throw and I personally preferred the darker gray and BW to the white or lighter Grey DYI painted screens. The experts might disagree though,
 

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Hi pharmacist25, welcome to the forum! :wave:

I did a bit of tidying up since you posted this question in multiple threads, no problem. :T

What screen size do you want to use? Mounted at 13 feet from the wall you could have it anywhere from 62" to 132" diagonal at 16:9.
 

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Welcome Pharm!

No Pj really makes advertised lumens. In "Best" Mode (Natural) you're looking at about 575 lumens with a new bulb, less a couple of hundred hours later. With a 1.0 gain screen you're looking at around 13 ftL initially, but around 10 ftL down the road a bit. The norm that most people are happy with is 12 to 22 ftL.

http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com/

In Dynamic mode, you've got a lot more lumens, but you really have to get that mode calibrated for it to look decent for movies. If you're into technical stuff, you could get into DIY calibration.

You have to understand the difference between the two modes to make a decision as to what you're going to do for a screen. If you're a purist, a real videophile, you're going to want to use Natural mode. The colors will be dead on, once you have it calibrated. The picture will always be color perfect. If you like a great picture, but aren't a purist, you may be happy with Dynamic mode after it's calibrated. Dynamic can be calibrated so that it's somewhat close to correct, but certainly not perfect. In reality, it will probably be as good as any TV you've ever watched that wasn't calibrated. If you don't get Dynamic calibrated, you probably won't be happy with the picture though.

If you want a perfect picture--color wise--you're going to want to run Natural mode, high lamp. I personally would recommend treating the room--dark walls, ceiling, floor and furniture--and going with a white screen for best results. Going white with the screen is only a good idea with a properly treated room. With the right white paint you can probably get a screen gain of around 1.2. (That is only my opinion, Mech has not done the gain testing on the white paints I'm thinking of yet. Any gain number is only a guess until actual instrumented testing has been done.) That would leave you with 16 ftL now and 12 ftL down the road.

Dynamic will give you the ability to watch movies on a .8 gain screen in ECO lamp mode. With a .8 gain (rough figure to get started here) gray screen, your picture will look better under a variety of ambient light conditions. Room treatments--dark walls, ceiling, floor, furniture--would be nice, but not critical. A .8 gain screen with the lamp in ECO mode and Dynamic will leave you with around 19 ftL now and 14 ftL down the road. Plus, you'll have the option to go HIGH on the lamp way down the road as the bulb dims even more.

Factor in the kind of watching you're going to do. Is this going to be dedicated to movie watching under very dark conditions? Consider treating the room and going with a white screen. Are you going to be watching a lot of shows with some light in the room? Is treating the room not an option? consider a gray screen and getting Dynamic mode calibrated.

Think about this a little bit, then let us know which road you want to go down. More specific help can then be given.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Wow, thats a lot of info. for me to digest. I am a newb here somewhat. I will start off and tell you what I know first. Right now, changing the ceiling and walls is not on the docket. It will not be dedicated movie watching in the total dark, but maybe 70%. I am not a purist and right now I have the 8350 set on dynamic mode. i have not calibrated it but may get one of the DVD's to do that. I am not sure I understand the "ftL". I looked on the website you provided, but had a hard time understanding it.
As far as gain goes, I guess I don't understand that either. i thought the goal was to stay close to 1??? Is the higher the gain better?
Sorry I feel really uneducated on this stuff. From what I was reading I was leaning toward BW screen. Thanks for taking the time to help me. Just trying to get clse to the best setup I can.
Blessings, Jeff
 

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... Right now, changing the ceiling and walls is not on the docket. It will not be dedicated movie watching in the total dark, but maybe 70%. I am not a purist and right now I have the 8350 set on dynamic mode. i have not calibrated it but may get one of the DVD's to do that. I am not sure I understand the "ftL". I looked on the website you provided, but had a hard time understanding it.
As far as gain goes, I guess I don't understand that either. i thought the goal was to stay close to 1??? Is the higher the gain better?
No Worries Pharm! We all started out uneducated. :D

If you're happy with Dynamic mode now and can't treat your room, that tells you to go with a gray screen. Dynamic mode can be WAY improved with a proper calibration. A proper calibration makes use of a sensor and a PC to measure the light along with a calibration disc. (You can also use pattern generators, but that's way beyond where you'll want to go. ) The Dynamic mode on the Epson 8350 is best calibrated using the 75% saturation method. In fact, it's the only way to get a good picture in Dynamic mode, IMHO.

Basic calibration guide: http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457
75% calibration method: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16166537#post16166537

ftL=foot lamberts. It's a measure of light. Brighter = higher ftL. [(PJ Lumen output x screen gain) divided by screen square feet] = ftL. The accepted ftL for most people is between 12 and 22. Some people are happy with as little as 6, some people feel any thing under 22 is too dim. Most people will be happy with between 12 and 22 ftL in a dark room. In a brighter room, more is needed to overcome ambient light. Gray screens improve your picture when ambient light is present, or in un-treated rooms.

No one gain is better than another. It all depends on what you are trying to accomplish. There is way too much to understand to explain it all here. Suffice it to say in your situation I'd recommend a gray screen paint. Either Black Widow or an OTS (Off The Shelf) gray paint. That will end up somewhere in the .8 to .9 gain range. Others will probably jump in with paint recommendations. Read this thread to help get you going: http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/diy-screens/50853-time-repaint-my-screen.html
 

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Hey Jeff,

I just finished a Unique Gray screen, it looks pretty nice in my room with my Epson 8100. You can take a look and see if it's something that might fit your needs. It also look great with some ambient lights on.


Nak,

I've been reading that 75% calibration method for the past couple of days. My impression is that it might not apply to the newer projectors, such as the 8350 or 8100? If it does, I would love to follow that guidelines to calibrate my 8100. Your thoughts?
 

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Smokarz,

Absolutely it applies to the 8100 and the 8350. I owned a 8100 at one point, and I've calibrated a number of 8350s. It makes an incredible difference to both. I think you'd be really pleased with the improvement. Plus, it's the only way to get a truly good picture out of Dynamic on both. One thing, you have to skew 75% green a bit towards cyan. Otherwise 100% green is skewed too much towards yellow. Thats just a limitation of dynamic mode.
 

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Thanks Nak, I'll follow that guide then. However, I'll be calibrating in 'Natural' mode, I have a dedicated batcave so dynamic won't be needed.

My i1D3 is coming later this week, and I am wanting to take the new HCFR program for a spin.
 

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No one gain is better than another. It all depends on what you are trying to accomplish.
Well... kinda. When ingredients are added to a paint to increase the gain it doesn't take much to become too much and then things start going wonky (that's a technical term ;)) with the reflected image. Dark gray screens with gains around 1.0 usually show some hot spotting; some people can tolerate this and others can't.

Whenever a screen's gain increases above it's Lambertian reflectance (a technical way of saying a gain higher than a perfectly flat/matte surface the color of the screen would have) the narrower the viewing angle (viewing angle times two equals the viewing cone). The higher the screens gain the greater the chance of having negative screen aspects such as hot spotting, color-shifting in off-axis viewing and image brightness falling off on off-axis viewing to the point where the image looks too dim.
 

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Well... kinda. When ingredients are added to a paint to increase the gain it doesn't take much to become too much and then things start going wonky (that's a technical term ;)) with the reflected image. Dark gray screens with gains around 1.0 usually show some hot spotting; some people can tolerate this and others can't.

Whenever a screen's gain increases above it's Lambertian reflectance (a technical way of saying a gain higher than a perfectly flat/matte surface the color of the screen would have) the narrower the viewing angle (viewing angle times two equals the viewing cone). The higher the screens gain the greater the chance of having negative screen aspects such as hot spotting, color-shifting in off-axis viewing and image brightness falling off on off-axis viewing to the point where the image looks too dim.
Absolutely agreed. I was just trying to simplify matters, rather than going into detail. Since the OP was happy with Dynamic, It didn't look like any compromises were necessary. (Lots of lumens available.) Hence the BW or OTS gray recommendation.
 

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My i1D3 is coming later this week, and I am wanting to take the new HCFR program for a spin.
Let me know how that goes. I'm very interested in the new fork of HCFR and the i1D3. It would be great if the 75% saturations were available right in HCFR, as opposed to using the spreadsheet. One of the commercial calibration programs has the 75% saturations built in, but I'd need two licenses--one for my i1 Pro and one for an i1D3--plus the software. Seems like a bit much, but I'll end up going that route if HCFR does not incorporate 75% saturations.
 

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Absolutely agreed. I was just trying to simplify matters, rather than going into detail. Since the OP was happy with Dynamic, It didn't look like any compromises were necessary. (Lots of lumens available.) Hence the BW or OTS gray recommendation.
Simple is good! :T I was just trying to fill in some blanks. I think gain is one of the most misunderstood screen specs there is.
 
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