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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey all!

I've been scouring the forums over the past few months soaking up as much DIY sub knowledge as possible, and I'd like to begin looking into what options might be available for me. I'm comfortable enough with all the terminology and build terms to get a grasp on the concepts, but on a practical level I'm still quite green. My current home theater setup is:

20.5'L x 12.5'W x 9.5'T or 2434.4ft ^3

3 SCS-01 mains
4 SBS-01 surrounds
1 SVS PB12 Plus
1 Klipsch SW10 II
Onkyo TX-SR805 Receiver
Samsung Bluray BDP 350
(and just for info's sake) BenQw5000 projector

I currently have a small stage built under the screen, but I am considering taking this out and using the entire 9.5'W x ~2'T x <2.5'L area to build a large sub enclosure for some :hsd: It would be similar to this build Graham worked up http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/ported-subwoofer-build-projects/33900-aa-avalanche-18-llt-build.html

My questions begin with what driver(s) would best fit into this type of design. From a box design, I'm leaning more towards ported and it is my understanding that more than 1 sub would provide better room balance. (Based on what I've read here.)
From a budget perspective, I think I am about the same as most others, I'm willing to spend some coin, but only if it is justified. In my professional life I'm in finance, so I'm into biggest bang for the buck and justifying my upgrades with evidence (Which, again, everyone here seems to understand.)
I'm up for amplifier suggestions as well, but it would appear that the EP2500 seems to fit the bill for most everyones ambitions here.

SO.... I think I understand how to get it all built (though any hints/tips/tricks would be awesome)... my large questions loom around hooking the driver up with wires etc. If there is a website somewhere, or somewhere on the forum here that details this, I would love a link :innocent:

I believe I have some pictures in my image gallery of the HT if that will help. They are slightly dated, as I have a bigger screen now and moved some things around, but you'll get the idea. I have a sketchup that is nearly to scale I'll post after this if I can figure out how to load it.

Lastly, I have said it in another forum and I'll say it again, I'm amazed at the responses from the members here. Never degrading and always more helpful than anticipated. I look forward to hearing what you all have to say.

Warm Regards,

Richard
 

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9.5'W x 2'T x 2.5'L would be an internal volume of over 40 cu.ft. so box volume definitely won't be an issue. A pair of 18" subs would give you excellent low end output in your stated room size. Here is some modeling of a couple of combinations.

Yellow is a pair of Mach 5 Audio IXL-18's powered by a EP4000 amplifier. Each sub would be powered by one channel of the amp.

Green is a pair of Exodus Audio Maelstrom-X 18's. Each sub would be powered by a EP4000 in bridged mode. Two subs, two amps.

The difference in output would be reflected in the cost, it will depend on how much you are willing to spend.

As for wiring the subs, we have a Driver Wiring Diagrams section, The specific diagram you will need will depend on what subs and amp combination you choose.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/driver-wiring-diagrams/



ixl18.JPG
 

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Either one of those will provide excellent low end- and with the models having nearly identical frequency response and only output differences, it leaves the choice down to desired output and coin amount. imo, unless you like your movies played really loud or current output from your speakers/receiver is lacking in your room, the ixl's and single amp would provide the low end output you crave, just without the mind-blowing spl.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Thanks Mike! I appreciate the very quick response.

As far as the wiring goes, I was as much refering to the physical aspect of wiring as much as the diagrams themselves. Sorry, I should have made that more clear.

Now, (out comes the evil budgeting side of me) having not heard the audible (and tactile) difference between 2-4db at the sub-25hz range at that SPL, do you all feel it justifies a price difference of over $800? Just some quick reference prices ($329/ep4k, $229/M5-AIXL, $475/MalX18) Again, I'm sure they'll both sound great, but having not actually heard the difference in that range or SPL from a sub, I'm relying on what I've read here to make sure its worth it to pay that much more for what I would be getting.

Warm Regards,

Richard
 

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The Mach Audio drivers are very impressive. For the same price off two malx's you could have two Mach Audio Duals with an EP4000 on each dual. That would surely beat two malx's.

Just imagine 4 18" drivers. You could run them along the front off your stage underneath the screen. But that obviously depends on how good they would sound in that location.

Another idea would be two FI Q18's 2010 model which would model in a smaller box. You could run an EP4000 off each off those drivers or just one for both.

Two dual tempest x2 15" subs with 2 EP4000's.

Two dual AE 15H or X 15" subs with 2 EP4000's.

Not sure if soundsplitters are selling there drivers yet but the 18" versions off those model really well too.

cheers

Graham
 

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The Mach Audio drivers are very impressive. For the same price off two malx's you could have two Mach Audio Duals with an EP4000 on each dual. That would surely beat two malx's.

Just imagine 4 18" drivers. You could run them along the front off your stage underneath the screen. But that obviously depends on how good they would sound in that location.

Another idea would be two FI Q18's 2010 model which would model in a smaller box. You could run an EP4000 off each off those drivers or just one for both.

Two dual tempest x2 15" subs with 2 EP4000's.

Two dual AE 15H or X 15" subs with 2 EP4000's.

Not sure if soundsplitters are selling there drivers yet but the 18" versions off those model really well too.

cheers

Graham
Running 4 across the front like that is going to yield a pretty decent in room response before any eq'ing. Spreading subs out lends itself to getting a better total response, so IMHO, its well worth taking the risk.

You could also test the spots with a single sub. One REW sweep in each driver position will give you enough info to extrapolate a decent estimate of the final response, if you want further peace of mind.

All the drivers mentioned will give good results, but you better with the AV15-X models from AE over the H's if you decided to go that route. The H's are designed for people wth quite tight size restrictions, and as such I would only choose those is the restrictions applied. They offer slightly less output at 20hz and under than the X's.

I can personally vouch for the 2010 versions of the Fi 18" Q series drivers too, having just completed a build with 2 of those. Very nice drivers, and very powerful.
 

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it is my understanding that more than 1 sub would provide better room balance. (Based on what I've read here.)
Richard
First of all, welcome to the forum Richard, you've come to the right place. I just built my first pair of Maelstrom-X 18 Sonotubes and the guidance I received from the members here at the Home Theater Shack was invaluable.

I finished the left sub first and was anxious to try it out so I placed it in the unoccupied left hand corner of my HT across the room from my SVS-12 Ultra. When I first started testing it I was a little disappointed with the output as compared to my SVS-12. The output was noticeably greater and cleaner, but I was expecting an order of magnitude increase over the SVS and it just wasn't there. After I finished the right hand sub and placed it in the location formerly occupied by the SVS-12 I realized that the room was playing a huge roll in the sound level. The two subs in opposite corners of the room sound much better. If you can possibly do it I'd build two subs.
 

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If you have a "budgeting side" I would recommend you go with the Mach 5 combo. As Glen stated, it will net you 120+dB: reference level down to 15 hz. If you've never heard that, you're in for a real treat. It will bring a whole new meaning to home theater "experiece":T Expect to find your Klipsch SW10 II hiding under one of the couches. :bigsmile:
 

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I agree with Mike, go with the Mach Audio's. For the money you really cannot buy a sweeter set up.

If it was me I would build 2 subs. I've just designed a 13 cu ft sub for another guy tuned to 15hz and that gives great output. This way you could try laying them down so the drivers are facing forwards and if that doesn't work you can stand them up and try either facing them forwards or inwards.

You will have so much flexibility with this.

Here's the link to give you an idea.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...494-help-needed-my-first-diy-subwoofer-6.html

cheers

Graham
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
9.5'W x 2'T x 2.5'L would be an internal volume of over 40 cu.ft. so box volume definitely won't be an issue. A pair of 18" subs would give you excellent low end output in your stated room size. Here is some modeling of a couple of combinations.

Yellow is a pair of Mach 5 Audio IXL-18's powered by a EP4000 amplifier. Each sub would be powered by one channel of the amp.

Green is a pair of Exodus Audio Maelstrom-X 18's. Each sub would be powered by a EP4000 in bridged mode. Two subs, two amps.

The difference in output would be reflected in the cost, it will depend on how much you are willing to spend.

As for wiring the subs, we have a Driver Wiring Diagrams section, The specific diagram you will need will depend on what subs and amp combination you choose.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/driver-wiring-diagrams/



View attachment 25231
Mike, I'm new to WinISD, but I did manage to replicate your results. It would seem that both the MalX and Mach 5 model the same if given equal amounts of system input power. Correct me if I'm wrong (and that has a high probability, :ponder: ) I also ran the FiQ 18 D2 2010 against them and I couldn't get it to flatten out past 30hz:huh:
With that being said, would 2 Mach 5 Audio IXL-18's powered by 2 EP4000's tuned to 15hz in a slot vent ported build be the best "boom for the buck"?
I upped the subs to 4 and saw a very small flattening of the curve, but it didn't appear to be a lot, though I'm probably doing something wrong here too.

Let me know what you think.

 

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It would seem that both the MalX and Mach 5 model the same if given equal amounts of system input power.
Yes, up to 1800 watts input power. At that point the IXL-18 has reached its limit excursion wise and almost power wise while the Maelstrom-X has a long way to go on both.

With that being said, would 2 Mach 5 Audio IXL-18's powered by 2 EP4000's tuned to 15hz in a slot vent ported build be the best "boom for the buck"?
Two IXL-18's are limited to about 900 watts each to reach excursion limits. One EP4000 would provide enough power for both subs.

Graham uploaded a 4 sub model, I'll download it and do a comparison with the 2 sub model.
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/35208-exploratory-diy-sub-beginner.html#ixzz131Wciq23

 

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2 malx's in a 30 cu ft box tuned to 15hz and 4000 watts input power has the same spl as 4 mach audio 18" subs with 3200 watts input power tuned to 15hz.

I think it will cost the same to build either off the above but I think I would probably go for two dual 18" mach audio subs with two EP4000 amps. Yes the boxes will be slightly bigger but this will help with port velocity.

30 cu ft is the absolute max for two malx's otherwise you will exceed max excursion with 4000 watts.
Port velocity is lower on the mach audio set up. Plus also if you wanted too you could make 4 single subs at a later date and have one in each corner off the room.

cheers

Graham
 

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Your stated box size is about 41 cu. ft. internal volume, with a sub that large about 5 cu. ft. needs to be subtracted for drivers, ports and bracing. This gives us a box size of 36 cu. ft. for modeling purposes.

The difference is quite a bit with 4, not that you would need to drive them this hard, but the potential is there. When driven to the levels of the 2 sub model it will do it with less Xmax, thus less straining.

graham.JPG
 

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Mike,

Here's what I worked out.

Box is 40 cu ft net.

Width off room is 150 inches (12.5 feet)

Box size is 132 wide by 28 high by 24 deep. This could be divided into 2 subs if need be.

Ive allowed for the port, brace and driver volume along with the thickness off mdf.

Having a box 132 wide, I am not sure how this will affect box resonance.
cheers

Graham
 

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