[Mark Techer]

Anyone using these for CIH? I am interested in the DVD0 Edge, but during a play with one, found that I could only Vertically Stretch the image, but not Horizontally Squeeze the image. Can this be done, and if so, what is the menu section?

Mark

 

[Mark Techer]

Anyway, it seems that the Edge can only custom vertically stretch, but the unit does feature a preset Horizontal Squeeze and Vertical Stretch. I think this unit still represents great value for money based on what it can and does do well

 

[Sonnie]

Looks like no one around here really knows much about this product. I certainly don't hear about it much anymore... nothing like I use to a few years ago.

 

[Mark Techer]

So how old is this product? I was impressed that for the $$$ it did support 1080/24P.

 

[lcaillo]

I think that most people looking for an outboard processor also want the ability to correct gamut and gamma, which I do not believe this unit offers.

 

[Mark Techer]

Really? I've featured it on my blogspot as I think it still represents great value for money and does what is needed for CIH.

 

[lcaillo]

I did not say it was not a good value. What I said was that I think many are interested in more than just CIH and scaling if they are buying an outboard processor. Just something to consider...

 

[gobrigavitch]

I think a big market for the Edge will be those with early HDMI receivers that don't accept 1080p. There are many of us that have receivers that are 3-4 years old that only accept 1080i or 720p through their HDMI inputs. Many of us will be upgrading our displays from 720p to 1080p now that it is so affordable. The Edge is the only processor I know of that has an audio only HDMI output which makes this issue moot.

 

[Mark Techer]

The Edge is the only processor I know of that has an audio only HDMI output which makes this issue moot.

Wasn't this also done to fix Audio Sync issues?

 

[gobrigavitch]

That certainly could be true, but it certainly is nice for those that have first generation HDMI receivers. Many of these do not allow 1080p input at all and the Edge provides a good workaround. Whether or not it's better to upgrade the receiver or add an Edge will be my choice.

 

[getgray]

I love the Lumagen products. Of all the HT gear I've had over the years, the Lumagen video processors have been some of the best. I've never seen a company as quick to implement features or provide firmware updates. And they do it at no charge. I had a HDP processor for about 7 years. They were still doing deature updates on it when I sold it. Currently they are the only VP to handle anamorphic scaling on 3D content. Everyone else just does pass-through. Can't recommend them enough. But they aren't cheap

 

[Prof.]

I've never owned one but I know that have a very good reputation..and it's no wonder from what you've said!
That's interesting to hear that the Lumagen is the only VP that can handle anamorphic scaling on 3D content..
Thanks for the info.. :T

 

[KelvinS1965]

I've just ordered the new 'Mini' Radiance processor to replace my Edge and Video EQ Pro combo. The Lumagen seems to allow much deeper levels of control for all kinds of CIH related items as well as all the calibration controls and scaling I currently have between the two devices, but in one box: I have an Isco II lens which magnifies the whole image by approx 5% and due to my excessive throw distance when I use the lens my image slightly overspills the sides of the screen. Currently I use the menu on my HD350 to mask 2.5% which perfectly fits my screen then. When I want to watch without the lens I have to keep going into the menu to turn off the masking (may as well have the full picture) and then slightly zoom the projector as the resulting image without the lens is 2.5% smaller than my screen. With the Mini I'll be able to press a different memory to select 2.35:1 or 1.85:1 and have the masking issue taken care of...I'll still have to adjust the projector zoom however.

While the Mini only has 2 HDMI inputs, you can use a switch in front of it (or an AV amp/processor as I plan to do) and then you can use 'virtual' inputs. This way you can have separate calibration settings for all your sources (and even for different resolutions). I used to own a Lumagen HDQ, so I hope I'll be quicker at learning the controls for this new device as it's a little more complicated than the Edge, but then it's got much more control.

Nice to see you over here Mark. :T

 

[Mark Techer]

Nice to see you over here Mark. :T

Thank you. It is good to be back. Please keep us all updated on this VP as it sounds like it is a better alternative to the EDGE.

 

[KelvinS1965]

Will do Mark. It's going to be a busy week: The Mini3D arriving, which means a fresh calibration, but my lamp has suddenly dimmed, but then I picked up a brand new one from a guy who just sold his HD750. Bad news is that I'll need to get 100 hours on it before I bother renting the i1Pro again, so I'll be using my i1LT which is being 'calibrated' or rather 'profiled' against a $$$ reference meter. The Oppo 93 won't be here until another two weeks or so I believe, so I'll have to use my existing Sony player for now (no subtitle shift and no 'source direct'). I'm itching to see if the vertical stretch scaling really does look any better than the Edge: I can see a very slight difference between the Edge and the HD350 itself, but only on test patterns not films, so I'm doubtful if I'll see any further improvement, but we'll see. I don't use the sharpness settings on the Edge either as they just create noise and ringing so I'll look very closely at the six (!) controls the Lumagen has to see if they help or just create negative effects as well.

I did some readjusting of my Isco II last night as I had it about 4" in front of my projector in the mistaken idea that it might help ANSI contrast by directing any reflections away from the projector's own lens. I found that by moving it as close as possible there doesn't seem to be any difference in ANSI terms, but the pincushioning has virtually gone completely...it wasn't bad before, but now it's only about 1cm above the screen edge in the corners if the middle is exactly on the screen edge. It's a 112" (2.8metre) wide screen, so that's pretty good in my book. I did notice the Isco has slightly smeary marks on the surface so I need to find something to clean it with as my usual 'Specsavers' lens cloth is a bit 'used' now.

 

[KelvinS1965]

Thank you. It is good to be back. Please keep us all updated on this VP as it sounds like it is a better alternative to the EDGE.

I put a bit of a mini review in my 'new members' post but just to say that I think the Mini3D takes the whole VP game on a big step: There are so many options to fine tune everything just how I want it. I've trimed the electronic masking to exactly fit the edges for example (my long throw is slightly too big for my screen when I'm using the lens), tweaked individual sources for CMS settings/sharpness/etc. The vertical stretch seemed sharper than before, but this could be down to the source (BluRay 'Centurian') and 'new toy' effect as could DVD upscaling which seemed really good on 'Over the Hedge' but then animation always looks good and my son didn't want me fiddling with the controls while he watched it :nono: so I didn't get to compare with using the M3D or the projector to upscale: I'll try later this week.

I did a very quick calibration using the CMS to my TV (fed via a HDMI splitter): I've set each 'Mem-A' for use with the TV, leaving B-D for the projector with and without lens and SMPTE-C gamut if I want. The TV had already been calibrated using it's own controls but it has no CMS, so it was just a matter of tweaking the white balance control at 100 IRE and setting the RGBCYM controls in the CMS. I also adjusted the luma controls at various IREs to trim the gamma (always a bit low on this TV higher up and too high at the low IREs): I now have accurate colours and a punchy picture in brighter scenes (due to the raised gamma) and better shadow detail due to the low end gamma being adjusted from 2.4 to 2.2/2.1.

I'm looking forward to getting to work on the HD350 later this week as my OH is away for a couple of nights. As I'm already using a VideoEQ Pro with the HD350 I doubt I'll see such improvements as with the TV but as I've recently fitted a new lamp it needs recalibrating anyway (and no doubt further tweaks once it gets some more hours on it). There are controls that are effect on a per aspect ratio/per input/per memory basis, so I've even been able to tweak a 1.85:1 setting and a separate 1.78:1 setting for the memory that uses the lens and the other that doesn't: If I watch a 2.35:1 film I tend to set the lens up beforehand and then any other ARs before and after the main film can be controlled accordingly including H-squeeze for 1.78:1/1.85:1 content. If the main feature is 1.85:1 then I don't bother setting up the lens, but I use a different memory in the M3D with settings appropriate for 1.85:1 that has been zoomed to fill the screen height. I even experimented with a 2.00:1 setting which cropped the very top and bottom of a 1.85:1 film so it could be zoomed slightly wider, kind of a half way house from 16:9 and 2.35:1 though whether I'll use it is another matter, but the option is there.

 

[KelvinS1965]

Mini3D calibration with HD350

I did the calibration of my HD350 last night. The Mini3D is really quick to work with (using Chromapure helps as well due to it's real time measurements of colour gamut and in the gamma module with RGB showing. I got some great results for my main setup which is for rec709 and with the Isco II in place in case of any minor colour temperature change (it's a few minutes work to copy this memory to tweak for use without the lens for 1.85:1 films).

I've attached the calibration report to this post for those interested. The HD350 plus Mini3D shows the native colour gamut of the HD350 in the before results (with only the 100 IRE adjusted at this point). The second is last night's calibration as I've deceided to use the high lamp mode (it has approx 20-25% more red so less cuts to the green and blue in the projector's RGB gains which helps maximise contrast)

What I've noticed with the Mini3D is that the vertical stretch seems to be better than the Edge (which in turn was better than the HD350's own scaler). It's a subtle effect, but I think it looks sharper than the Edge. For some reason motion seems better too, which may be related to a certain 'dither' setting in the output options, but whatever the cause it's nice to view. I only watched a brief clip afterwards but the picture looked superb on Casino Royale (my standard test disc) the titles at the start had such depth and sharpness. There is a scene at teh start of chapter 6 or 7 of a train at dusk and the details in it were really clear, shadows having details that the HD350 alone would struggle to do due to it's coarser brightness/gamma controls.

It's not a cheap device, but I hope to recoup some of the upgrade cost by selling on my old Edge and Video EQ Pro, but I'm glad I made the change. Ironically I didn't expect to see much improvement for 2.35:1 BluRay content at 1080/24p and I don't watch many DVDs these days, so it's all been a pleasant surprise.

 

[Wull]

Sounds as if it's been a worthwhile upgrade Kelvin. I would be interested to see if anyone has done a side by side comparison with the Duo. I'm still quite amazed the difference this has made to my set up. Please note, 'This is my first, one and only full cms on my PJ so I have little experience in this'. It's all good, you have found a worthy champion to take your redundant gears place in your hifi rack of fame 'I remember you a short while back saying you felt you had nailed it then, any visual gain is good'. Thats taking your hobby to the max Kelvin, I salute you sir :clap:. Spot on in my book :T

 

[Mark Techer]

Kevin, those charts look pretty impressive.

 

[KelvinS1965]

Thanks for your comments guys, the high lamp settings are even better too.

Last night I made use of one of the more hidden settings: Adaptive Contrast. Now normally I'd stear well clear of this type of setting, but the disc we were watching (Perrier's Bounty) started with lots of darker scenes and seemed to suffer from raised blacks, making it look washed out. I tried setting the Adaptive contrast to +1 (out of 30) and it instantly stopped that washed out look, but without effecting the brighter scenes. It does slightly crush blacks on good discs and test patterns, so I wouldn't use it all the time by any means, but it worked well in this case. Not unlike the dark scenes in 'I am Legend' I suppose, with their raised blacks. It's a different effect to just moving the brightness down or even tweaking the gamma (I tried both after the film on a paused scene), so it's a useful tool to have, even if it's not 'as intented' it certainly looked better to me.

I've seen a few discs lately that seem to be authored in this way, so having a 'quick fix' button option is great.

I also played with the sharpness controls for use with my PVR memory setting: It added a bit of clarity to the picture, but without causing the micro judder that using my projector's equivalent controls seem to. I didn't check it with a test pattern, to see what it's doing to 'real data' but the settings were very low and with the M3D you can flick between copied memories instantly to compare the effect of one setting change and I prefered the result (at least with the PVR).