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Discussion Starter #21
Bill.. it's actually a 2.37:1..That's the aspect ratio required for this Anamorphic lens, to completely fill the width of the screen..

Here is a shot of the finished screen..It's a little blurry unfortunately..

 

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Excellent job! Get that puppy mounted and then some gratuitous screenies up! :)

Oh... 300 should look outstanding on that!
 

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Have you noticed any hotspotting or color shifting with this material?

I tried a few different materials in my journey's from fabrics to plastics and found that the more they reflected the more prone they were to hotspotting. The easiest way I found to detect this was to use Avia, there are a few full screen color fields of various colors. Playing them(more so with the brighter colors) I could see that the colors were not uniform across the entire screen, and if you moved around the room the colors would shift in radiance with these higher reflective materials. I decided against those materials, even though they gave brighter whites and overall vibrant colors, because of the uneven color spread. I also found imperfections in a number of the different materials I tried.

I ended up choosing this material from Dazian because of the perfect uniformity in finish and the projected image is reflected absolutely even no matter how you look at it, zero hotspotting and color shifting. This material is a slightly stretchy thin PVC(which also makes it easy to clean) with very fine diagonal ridges that can only be seen from a few inches away.

I'd love to give that material a try. I live in Australia so sourcing it over here may be an issue. Do you have any more info on I should be looking for?

cheers:)
 

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Discussion Starter #24
MACCA..mech and Bill....This Nulon screen material is incredible!!

I temporarily set up the screen yesterday to see how this material performed, and was totally blown away by what I saw...It's even better than what my test sample showed!!

The first thing I noticed was just how bright and clear the overall image was..It was like a veil had been lifted from the image...
But what really stands out is how sharp the image is compared to my previous vinyl faced screen..It Almost has that CRT type of sharpness, that doesn't have any harshness to it..if you know what I mean.

The WHITES and the BLACKS are the BEST I have ever seen of all the seven screens and dozens of test panels I have tried over the years..I could even reduce contrast and the whites were still strong..
And the COLOURS !!...well the only way I can describe it is, it was like a few more thousand colours had been added to the images...with absolutely no push to any colour...

HOT-SPOTTING !!...Totally non existent!!..My previous vinyl screen exhibited a little bit of hot-spotting, which was only noticeable with a bright sky background..
With a totally white projected image, this whole screen was evenly illuminated from one side to the other..

VIEWING CONE !!...It doesn't have one!!..I could stand right next to the screen, and it was just as bright when viewing from the normal seated position..

Because of the clarity and added sharpness, the image now has a greater perceived depth to it..giving it a more of a 3D look...

I can't emphasize enough, how good this screen material is, and I'm very sure it would stand up very well against the most expensive commercial screens..

Comparing it to other screens I've made, I would guess it has about a 1.3 gain..

When the screen has been properly set up and the new lens in place, I will post some pics..

MACCA...You can get this material from most Clark Rubber stores..It's 1450mm.wide and costs $15.95/M...Also may be available from Spotlight..
If you can just get a half metre or so, it will be well worth trying against your Dazian material..
Oh...and btw..This leaves BOC for dead!!
 

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Discussion Starter #26
I'm doing a test shot for the guy that sells the lenses, so I thought I'd post it here as well...Just to give you a taste...

This is a 9' wide image on the new screen, from a 480p projector, on economy mode..straight off the camera..
The photo was taken 13' back from the screen...

[/IMG]
 

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Ok, I spent most of the afternoon testing. A couple of things I found.

1. The material is a very thin gauge PVC in comparison to the Dazian material

2. The material has a sheen to it, which is why it has a higher reflectivity(very similar to other materials I've tested)

3. The material becomes flaccid under warmer conditions(caused problems for me)

4. The material also becomes flaccid and stretches when water is added, and once added causes a stain that changes the sheen in that area after it dries(making spot cleaning difficult). None of this happens to the Dazian material, and I've spot cleaned it on numerous occasions.

Now, whites are whiter, but I found full black slightly lighter with direct comparisons using test patterns and under normal use.

I may do some more testing on the color shifting because projected colors change with wrinkles in the material(from memory this was not noticeable with the Dazian material under the same conditions, I may retest that). I think this is a side effect of the slight sheen, but should not be noticeable with the material properly stretched.

This next problem I had may not be an issue for those who stretch the material over a frame. I use a trampoline method as seen below(this photo was taken awhile ago with the Dazian material).

I fitted the new material to the frame, it was pulled taught and wrinkle free by the springs, so far looks good. My problem came when I tried to spot clean a couple of marks, first thing was the area that I cleaned became flaccid and wrinkled while still being taught all around the spot, so I did another large area for testing, same thing. Ok, so I waited for it to dry, it seemed to stiffen up but not as much as before and it looked different to the rest of the screen(it looked like the sheen was different in those areas). Now I wanted to try some temperature tests, I turned on the heater to warm up the room(inside temp was 23 and rose to about 29), the material became flaccid and the springs pulled almost fully closed and caused wrinkles all around the screen. I turned on the aircon on and cooled the room back down to 23 but the material didn't pull back into shape and the wrinkles remained. It was getting late so I put the Dazian material back in the frame.

As I said before this may not be an issue for those who stretch the material over a frame but the spot cleaning issue could.

Anyway this was how my afternoon panned out. I may have another play tomorrow

cheers:)
 

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Discussion Starter #29
1. The material is a very thin gauge PVC in comparison to the Dazian material:
Actually, according to Clark Rubber it's supposed to be rubber backed nylon material..
4. The material also becomes flaccid and stretches when water is added, and once added causes a stain that changes the sheen in that area after it dries(making spot cleaning difficult). None of this happens to the Dazian material, and I've spot cleaned it on numerous occasions.
This material should be water-proof, since it is used for water-proof jackets, tents and flags..

Now, whites are whiter, but I found full black slightly lighter with direct comparisons using test patterns and under normal use..
I found the blacks also to be very strong compared to my previous screen..Maybe the Dazian does perform better with blacks..

This next problem I had may not be an issue for those who stretch the material over a frame. I use a trampoline method as seen below(this photo was taken awhile ago with the Dazian material).

I fitted the new material to the frame, it was pulled taught and wrinkle free by the springs, so far looks good. My problem came when I tried to spot clean a couple of marks, first thing was the area that I cleaned became flaccid and wrinkled while still being taught all around the spot, so I did another large area for testing, same thing. Ok, so I waited for it to dry, it seemed to stiffen up but not as much as before and it looked different to the rest of the screen(it looked like the sheen was different in those areas). Now I wanted to try some temperature tests, I turned on the heater to warm up the room(inside temp was 23 and rose to about 29), the material became flaccid and the springs pulled almost fully closed and caused wrinkles all around the screen. I turned on the aircon on and cooled the room back down to 23 but the material didn't pull back into shape and the wrinkles remained. It was getting late so I put the Dazian material back in the frame...
I gather that you had the material on your frame in place of the Dazian..
This material requires a backing of some sort, because of it's translucency..I've backed it with a sheet of white MDF..
This also might explain why you didn't get the strong blacks that I'm seeing..
If you just drape the material in front of your existing screen, this will give it a backing and give a better comparison..

I'd be interested to see some side by side screen shots..
 
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Prof, I bought some of this type of material from Spotlight about 2 years ago and have used it for my Sony CRT projector. I still have yet to build a fixed screen for it, but in the comparison shots
you have taken it really does perform better than the others.:T

The first shot is taken with the flash...The second is taken without...and the third shot has been taken from 6" away in sunlight..There is almost no surface texture.





 

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Actually, according to Clark Rubber it's supposed to be rubber backed nylon material..
Yes thats what the sticker said. I tore an offcut and yes it is a fabric with a rubberized backing.

This material should be water-proof, since it is used for water-proof jackets, tents and flags..
It's waterproof but the water changes the stiffness of the material, its hard to explain, try it with an offcut.


I found the blacks also to be very strong compared to my previous screen..Maybe the Dazian does perform better with blacks..
Possibly

I gather that you had the material on your frame in place of the Dazian..
This material requires a backing of some sort, because of it's translucency..I've backed it with a sheet of white MDF..
This also might explain why you didn't get the strong blacks that I'm seeing..
If you just drape the material in front of your existing screen, this will give it a backing and give a better comparison..
All my testing was done with a .5m strip of the material draped over my existing Dazien screen for comparisons. After all this I replace the Dazian screen with this material but thats as far as I got due to the issues I stated earlier. So I haven't yet tested it on it's own in the frame.

I have an old frame in the shed that has BOC stretched over a wooden frame, so I may stretch this material over the BOC and try the old screen out(since the 'trampoline' screen failed).

I'd be interested to see some side by side screen shots.
I'll see what I can do.

cheers:)
 

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Discussion Starter #32
It's waterproof but the water changes the stiffness of the material, its hard to explain, try it with an offcut.
Well you were right..We've just had our first rains in months and the air is heavy with moisture..The material has sagged with ripples everywhere..
It may straighten out again when the moisture dissipates, but I can't live with it doing that every time it rains.

So it's back to the drawing board again..I think I'll have to look for a solid substrate material that I can use as is, or go to a painted screen..

It's a great disappointment because the image quality on the Nulon was excellent..
 

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Well you were right..We've just had our first rains in months and the air is heavy with moisture..The material has sagged with ripples everywhere..
It may straighten out again when the moisture dissipates, but I can't live with it doing that every time it rains.

So it's back to the drawing board again..I think I'll have to look for a solid substrate material that I can use as is, or go to a painted screen..

It's a great disappointment because the image quality on the Nulon was excellent..
Yes, its a shame.

Try some solid PVC based materials. I tried many different materials including fabrics(some satin's were rather good for gain) and tarpaulin's of various kinds. The problem I had with the tarpaulin's was consistency in the finish, I'd try a sample that looked perfect but when I got a full size piece there were imperfections that I couldn't live with. I tried to source a manufacture of the kinds of PVC material like the Dazian screen but kept hitting dead ends, these screen companies must have exclusivity's with manufactures if they outsource:crying: In the end I just bit the bullet and ordered the material(at the time it was half the price it is now)

Good luck, and keep us posted.
cheers:)
 

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Well you were right..We've just had our first rains in months and the air is heavy with moisture..The material has sagged with ripples everywhere..
It may straighten out again when the moisture dissipates, but I can't live with it doing that every time it rains.

So it's back to the drawing board again..I think I'll have to look for a solid substrate material that I can use as is, or go to a painted screen..

It's a great disappointment because the image quality on the Nulon was excellent..
Prof sorry to hear that... this looked very nice and I'd think still is for people that don't have lots of moisture. Was it humidity in the air that caused it? Would a dehumidifier help out some and maybe prevent it from happening again?
 

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Discussion Starter #35
MACCA,

I originally wanted to use a solid PVC foam sheet, because I had heard good reports about it and Mark Teacher swore by it.. but it isn't available here in Adelaide in 3M. long sheets..
That's when I found the Nulon...

I'm currently thinking about a laminate like the Designer White, but laminates here are very expensive, particularly when you want to get a 3000mm.. long sheet..and they do need to be bonded to a solid substrate..

And this brings me to a painted screen possibility..It may be the simplest way to solve the problem..

Did you get your Dazian material locally or ship it from the States?..I've never found any source over here for it..
 

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Discussion Starter #36
Bill,

I think it was the humidity that killed it..It's been quite warm even with the rain..Tropical like.

I did manage to get it stretched tight again by putting a little blower heater directed at the screen..
It only took a few minutes of heat, and you could see the creases and folds disappearing..Strange stuff this Nulon!!...But after the screen cooled down, the sagging was back again..
I watched a movie last night, constantly getting up and down to switch the heater on and off...great fun..:sarcastic:
At the moment it looks like a crinkled bedsheet hanging there...

I think my only alternative at this stage is the painted screen...
 

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Prof,
I had it sent over from the states, you can order it cut to length straight off their site. There was someone selling heaps of Dazian stuff(including screen material) on Ebay, they must have worked at Dazian, but I can't find them now.

cheers:)
 

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Discussion Starter #39
Thanks MACCA...I had a look at their website and it is quite expensive, even for 54" wide when you convert to AUD plus shipping costs..
Have you ever compared it to BOC, and what sort of improvement would you see?
This is why I chose the Nulon, because it exceeded BOC in every aspect..as my screenshots show..
 

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You know, I'm not sure if I actually compared the Dazian to BOC, and unfortunately I don't have any BOC now.

If you like I could send you a small piece of the Dazian material and you can see what you think of it.

I found this site that was started by a guy from the AVS forum when he was searching for material. He ended up manufacturing his own Acoustically transparent material and started up his own company called SMX Theater Solutions. His new frame looks rather interesting but will cost, starting at over US$1,500 and 4meters of their fabric will cost you US$380(4meters of Dazian is US$114)

When he first made that SMX material it apparently used to be about US$10 per meter now its US$95 per meter.

cheers:)
 
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