I posted this over at AVS but I thought for the greater good its worth its merits here as well.
Well last night was the night..... dropped in the driver and sealed it up and brought the sub and amp up to my bedroom and ran with it....
Equipment
Paradigm Sig S4's
D-Sonic 500w/channel Ice amp
JL Audio F112
DIY TC-Sounds 15" TC2000 / QSC PLX2 - 2502 (3/4" Baltic Birch 13 Ply Plywood) based off NeoDans Maelstrom CutSheet modifyied, thanks Dan, 20"^3 with extra brace to beef er up. I bought this driver off Willd for Brandon/Nuance. Thanks Will, Its really quite the performer.
Final internal volume is 3.3 cu. ft. or 93.4 Liters ( .14 for driver, .15 for bracing)
Brandon was over here, we were going back and forth between the JL F112 and the 15" TC2000..... In comparison, the TC2K is an extremely capable sub.... I am very very impressed. The F112 is also needless to say a very articulate sub, manufactured to be one of the best subs I have heard especially for music.
The ARO single band EQ on the F112 was disabled to keep the playing field equal.
First thoughts, the F112 has a touch better upper bass handling and performance, but they are so very close its hard to tell the difference, I had Brandon fooled a couple of times with the blind testing, where he thought he picked out the F112, but it was the TC. On the other hand the F112 struggles a bit more in the lower hz range compared to the TC, some of the deep tracks we were running the "David Gilmour - Live at Royal Albert" track is "Time" second song in, the bass here is near overwhelming and shakes everything in my room and this side of the house:hsd::yikes:.... unbelievable... We were replaying that track multiple times with the F112 hitting 119db and the TC 120db... it seams the TC is amp limited here running at max output with the clip lights just barely coming on - on the QSC PLX2 - 2502. I know it could handle more power - but I can't say I am dissapointed here whatsoever... Amazing to say the least. We also ran through multiple musical tracks from Joe Satriani and others, judging performance I know the JL is awesome with everything I have thrown at it, the TC matches everything easily, and with EQ will be even better down low, not that its lacking, but a little EQ down low, and add in some boost in the upper bass I am thrilled to death. I have never measured my room nor did I feel the need with the JL, but I plan to bring my
SMS in here to see whats going on, and add some boost to the low end rumble zone.
Brandon had a serious grin on his face....
In comparison, the F112 has an entrance fee of over $2000.00, and the full build out for the TC was around $650-$700 with the Behringer EP2500 amp and materials. To be fair, the F112 does things not many 12" drivers are capable of doing, and it does it very well, Kudos to JL for making an incredible all in one product that has few rivals in such a pint size product. I have no regrets buying this sub, but knowing what I know now, to me I personally can't hardly justify the difference in price, so I could easily sell the JL and get a good chunk of my money back and feel no regrets... I have grown to love superior SQ and output that the F112 provides, it would be really hard for me to give it up. Next up, 2 more of the same sealed TC2000's, and 2 18" Maelstroms for my great room, to replace my dual SVS PB12-Plus/2's.
Regards
Patrick
Sorry for the Iphone Pics, but you get the point...
Great write up! It's amazing how a little bit or research and work in the garage can get you absolute top notch performance. Most audio enthusiasts would kill for a J112 and you've got it trumped for less than half it's price. Nice!
Thanks thxgoon..... You've said it, and when you say a little bit of work, you mean it... I had that birch ply cut up and it was 2-3 days of on and off glue and wait, and I work 11 hour days. To make something that will easily match the performance of the F112 or F113 as cheap as this build was, still puts a serious smile on my face....
Thanks Strongbad... I have put off and wavered with my build strategies for way too long, but now I am on a rampage !!!!
This sub is for my buddy, who's second child has just arrived, he's young, so I sprung for the entire build, he is going to pay me back, so his final decision on finish is unknown to me, he suggested painting, but he just got some new Salk Songtowers with Ribbon tweeter in a exotic rosewood finish, I wanted to work on matching that finish, but for now, he is gunna run it naked...
Interesting comparison wrpdrv. The DIY community has known for a long time it could keep up and best the top commercial subwoofers . . . . and save money in the process.
Yes, add some EQ to that home built of yours . . . . then you'll see.
Very interesting and exciting to hear how the TC-2000 compares to one of the best musical subs out there. I have a pair of Audiopulse Revo 15's that I need to build enclosures for. Any thoughts on LLT vs. sealed in terms of sound quality?
If you read enough threads re: LLTs and EQed sealed subs I think you'll find that the owners don't separate the two types by sound quality, rather by how much effortless power there is available in the 5HZ to 30HZ region.
I rate the sound "quality" equal between the two.
I prefer sealed, but that requires enough power to overcome the spring, but then again I haven't heard a truly remarkable driver in a ported enclosure. Honestly, I would rather have much more articulation and clarity for music above 20hz then I have a need for the rumble zone. You can do the rumble zone just get more sealed drivers..
Seriously, my sealed sub shakes so much stuff in my house its rather ridiculous, I'm not sure how much more shaking I need in that small bedroom. tons of room gain. Even the JL is good for that.
I'm almost done with box 2, here are some pics... 2 more 15's to go This one I added a rear brace to firm up that long back wall, upon inspection of the last one, I could feel some flex running all out, which I didn't care for, so I will be taking the first one apart tonight to add in a brace. Makes me feel better as its going to a new home in the next couple days.
BTW Phil.... you make me sick with that pic of that LMS....
I would love a few of those laying around my house... I'm Jealous
LOL, Listen Warp . . . . . when push comes to shove it's nice to have one of those Bragging rights things but during normal listening schedules I'll bet the only difference you'd notice between yours and mine would be the "beer and ketchup stains" . . . . . on mine !
That TC 2000 sure does look handsome in your cabinet with the big shoulders. Well done.
Your being modest... seeing as I have the same problem with my car where I can't keep the throttle pedal at a moderate setting, the same goes with my volume control.... seems to always find itself roaming towards the upper limits more then not....
Well I have to say I agree, during normal listening they do sound spectacular... and jumping back and forth between the DIY and the F112, no one would be the wiser... In the famous words of McDonalds... "I'm Lovin It !!"
Back in July of this year Ilkka tested the LMS 5400 in a 200L box, my box is 190L. I use a Crown XTi 4000 amp. If I EQ the bottom end, I use up all the power in the amp very quickly. The DSP and EQ of the XTi is a lot of fun. You can make the driver/box combination sound like the ultimate boom box or level the FR and bring up the low end to make CDs and DVD movies sound outstanding.
And you're right about testing the SPL limits, occasionally I'll hit the accelerator when I'm alone in the house, just as a reminder to myself why you pay almost $900 bucks for one of those dam drivers.
Well it seems that I have tried to build a sub to compete with my F112, building my sealed TC-2000, but I haven't so far introduced an EQ to boost that upper bass to get the TC into the realm of the JL, so I decided to combine the efforts of both subs.... I picked up a couple of splitters and I'm running both and it is truly the best bass I have ever heard. A good friend of mine was over today, he has been part of a high end dealer here in the area for a while and we both agreed, going back and forth, switching subs and then finally combining them it was absolutely out of this world.
I am running both of them together and all I can say is WOW :yikes::clap:, the combination of the natural deep reaching power the TC has in addition to the better upper bass handling of the F112, its a match made in heaven...
I think I may just have to keep them both in here... I was measuring 125db until I finally dialed them down to 4-5 db hot from the mains..
Well, it's not like you're using any extra floor space by stacking them, so if you don't have any strong urge to sell it, and it makes you happy, keep it!
Now I have to come up with a plan so that TC doesn't stick out like such a soar thumb...
Guess I'll have to work on a Piano Black paint scheme to match or Rosewood veneer to match the mains...
And I guess its time to get to work on that magnetic grill....
Nice review on both subs, I'm looking for a TS Sounds (Audiopulse Revo) 15" myself for the sealed build I finished, to go along with a LT1300 plate amp and ED EQ2 which I already have. I've heard a lot of positive feedback from you and other forum members on this driver. I have a forum going on now here regarding the revo.
I think if you feed that sub more power, it will do even better. I think it will take 1500w with no problem.
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