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Howdy folks,

I've been summoned by a few users, and would like to wrap my head around what's going on here. :)

It sounds like people are having trouble exporting FuzzMeasure impulses into REW? What is the specific issue that is causing problems?

I'm looking at graphs that appear to include the distortion components (i.e. the "mini impulses" that appear to the left of the initial impulse response, decreasing in amplitude as you move further to the "left" of the initial impulse.) Those are totally normal in the context of swept sine measurements (and part of their power!)

Thanks!

Chris
 

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…because FM is kinda withering on the vine because the developer is trying to make a living with his other (quite interesting) iapps.
Just a point of clarification here, if I may.

FuzzMeasure follows a much more glacial development schedule out of necessity right now. The "iapps" just happen to have opened the doors to my being able to hire some help over the past 6 months, and I hope that the effects of their sales will be apparent on FuzzMeasure's development in the coming months.

Building Capo has been an enlightening journey, as it drew on my FuzzMeasure experience to design and develop some advanced features in an otherwise non-advanced product segment. I'm revolutionizing a market that has been short on "fancy DSP technology." But Capo has also taught me some new tricks that I hope to bring to FuzzMeasure users in the near future.

From the outside, I know it looks like I've been saying that a lot, but I assure you that there has been more work happening than is apparent. For instance, the latest 3.3 update included a major audio engine revamp that was pulled in from my work on 4.0. It enabled multi-channel sweep outputs as well as fewer measurement issues with certain classes of audio devices. All of these are "invisible" improvements, but important ones nonetheless.

If all goes well with my next "iapps" release, I hope to add another full-time engineer to help me bring FuzzMeasure's next major release to market faster. I wish I could share more details, but I am truly excited about what the future holds for FuzzMeasure.

Chris
 

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Hi Chris, welcome! I sent you an email which is probably pertinent to this, although it may not be that apparent. The following will explain what I mean and the summary may be helpful to all readers. Do note the earlier post by Esprit though, saying exactly the same thing

For some time people have been successfully Exporting and Importing IR's between REW and FM.
For some time we have been able to use LineIn and SoundFlower to allow REW to function on the Mac's crippled version of Java.
A very similar workaround enabled the UMIK-1 to work with REW on Macs. Much thanks to the OP John Reekie here.

All of this has changed with the introduction of Mavericks.
I have never seen such a disastrous OS update before, in fact I have never seen an update which was negative in any way. Plse note that ProTools 11 users and probably others are having nightmares with Mavericks also.

Now on my iMac with Mavericks 10.9.2 installed:-
I cannot get the UMIK to function. MiniDSP are being very helpful, but ultimately I believe it will take a hardware change to 44.1K to make this device Java/Mac friendly.
On brief tests exporting from FM to REW the graphs are significantly different.

EDIT, Chris and I SimulTyping..... Is there an app for that?
Just to be fully clear. FuzzMeasure is a fully capable acoustic tool and works perfectly on Macs, including ALL interface types, and the onboard 1/O.
The UMIK-1 works perfectly with all normal Mac apps.
REW works perfectly using the Mac onboard I/O. This is of a perfectly acceptable quality for Acoustic Measurement. I have measured 20-20K on this iMac, with less than 0.1dB variation, and negligible distortion.


DD
 

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Now on my iMac with Mavericks 10.9.2 installed:-
I cannot get the UMIK to function. MiniDSP are being very helpful, but ultimately I believe it will take a hardware change to 44.1K to make this device Java/Mac friendly.
That seems rather drastic. If the device wants to operate at a better sample rate, it should! As long as it's a class-compliant USB hardware device, we should be OK. I'll be communicating with the miniDSP folks as well to ensure everything's behaving itself with FM as well.

On brief tests exporting from FM to REW the graphs are significantly different.
Could you elaborate on this? You have to understand that a normalized impulse response will peak at 1.0 at the peak of the impulse itself. That won't necessarily normalize the ETC graphs or frequency response graphs.

That is, a peak of 1.0 (or 0 dBFS) in the time domain doesn't guarantee the same peak in the frequency domain. That's just not how the math works.

Anyway, examples of how exported impulses aren't coming across in REW would be helpful for me to explain this better here.

Chris
 

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We should get a room Chris! I haven't had time to repeat the quick Export/Import tests I did but I will.
I am not sure it is fully On Topic in this thread though. Perhaps another thread on the havoc which is being wreaked throughout the audio community by Mavericks?
Or a focus on the Java(sound)/Mac issue here, which I am convinced by the warning messages in REW, is a 44.1K thing.
IMO, 44.1K is the common FS for music and should be the primarily default in all software and hardware. As it stands 48K reigns.

I am 100% certain that the UMIK-1 and FuzzMeasure are working perfectly on Macs.

The UMIK-1 is a regular USB device, but this does not guarantee function with REW on Macs. REW also fails to function at anything other than 48K, although not always. REW also doesn't work even with class compliant interfaces which are more than 2 Channel USB, or Firewire of any size.
48K Warning.png
DD
 

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I haven't had time to repeat the quick Export/Import tests I did but I will.
I'll stay tuned.

I am not sure it is fully On Topic in this thread though. Perhaps another thread on the havoc which is being wreaked throughout the audio community by Mavericks?
I'm not familiar with much havoc from my end. CoreAudio is a fairly stable system that hasn't changed very much if at all over the past few years.

I am 100% certain that the UMIK-1 and FuzzMeasure are working perfectly on Macs.
Glad to hear it. Honestly, as long as hardware works with CoreAudio it should work with FuzzMeasure trouble-free.

The UMIK-1 is a regular USB device, but this does not guarantee function with REW on Macs. REW also fails to function at anything other than 48K, although not always. REW also doesn't work even with class compliant interfaces which are more than 2 Channel USB, or Firewire of any size.
DD
That's a real bummer, and I'm not sure who is at fault, as I'm not familiar with the matter.
 

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Rotten Apple

Chris, REW is a Java app. It works fine on PC's and I presume Linux machines etc. all of which implement Java as it's designers specify. Apple have not complied for a long time, thus the problems and the workaround of this thread.

DD
 

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Re: Rotten Apple

Chris, REW is a Java app. It works fine on PC's and I presume Linux machines etc. all of which implement Java as it's designers specify. Apple have not complied for a long time, thus the problems and the workaround of this thread.

DD
For what it's worth, Java's runtime should be maintained by Oracle, and I believe they're the ones doing the work to make sure it runs well on PCs. I don't believe they put the same level of effort into maintaining it on OS X.

If I were to venture a guess, I'd say that whatever team is tasked with maintaining the OS X java runtime simply doesn't have the expertise or motivation to make the audio side work perfectly. I also use MATLAB which is java-based, and they have more than their fair share of issues with the runtime as well.

I think that, once upon a time, Apple used to have a hand in keeping the runtime up to date, but whether Apple simply doesn't care or Oracle isn't allowing them to maintain the runtime themselves is another story. To be honest, I don't think it's necessarily fair for Apple to be required to do this work. Ultimately Java is a technology product that promises cross-platform functionality, and hence the onus is on the Java folks to do whatever it takes to live up to their claims.

But that's just my own $0.02.
 

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Compatible

That's interesting Chris. However, to my knowledge, there are things in OSX treatment of Java which are not compatible with the Java specs. As the purpose of Java is to be a mulitplatform, ahem platform, surely it behoves all of OS's to comply with one central set of specs. I mean, it makes little sense to include Java compatibility in an OS, but leave out or disobey certain aspects. Windows and afaik Linux treat it with re (spec)t and REW works perfectly.

BTW, Chris and Bob, I have been trying some Export/Import tests. When I force both apps to run at the same Sample Rate, despite REW's protests, i.e. 48Khz the 32 Bit WAV Ex/Im seems to mostly work fine for most graphs. The only flaw I see is that the distortion pre-images are missing in REW. I am fairly sure these used to transfer across before Mavericks.
I will test further but will PM both of you with anything interesting as I believe this is a tad Off Topic.
I just wanted to reinstate the probability that capturing on FM and viewing in REW, on Macs seems still viable.
I expect the Distortion thing to be a small fix or perhaps some parameter I have overlooked.
DD
 

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Re: Compatible

That's interesting Chris. However, to my knowledge, there are things in OSX treatment of Java which are not compatible with the Java specs. As the purpose of Java is to be a mulitplatform, ahem platform, surely it behoves all of OS's to comply with one central set of specs. I mean, it makes little sense to include Java compatibility in an OS, but leave out or disobey certain aspects. Windows and afaik Linux treat it with re (spec)t and REW works perfectly.
That's not how it works in practice. OS X moves to the beat of its own drum, and Java needs to keep up. I'm sure there's a two-sided arrangement in place, and for some reason it's not functioning as we'd like.

There is undoubtedly some animosity towards Java due to recent security vulnerabilities introduced by the Java runtime. Similar stuff has happened with Adobe's Flash as well. Apple doesn't own either technology, yet failings on the part of Adobe and Oracle ultimately lead to a stain on Apple's reputation with their customers. Apple doesn't really need to take this anymore, and I can understand why they continue to treat third-party cross-platform frameworks and applications as third-class citizens.

Is it ideal for consumers? That's arguable, and not worth exploring here as you pointed out. Way off topic.

BTW, Chris and Bob, I have been trying some Export/Import tests. When I force both apps to run at the same Sample Rate, despite REW's protests, i.e. 48Khz the 32 Bit WAV Ex/Im seems to mostly work fine for most graphs. The only flaw I see is that the distortion pre-images are missing in REW. I am fairly sure these used to transfer across before Mavericks.
I will test further but will PM both of you with anything interesting as I believe this is a tad Off Topic.
I just wanted to reinstate the probability that capturing on FM and viewing in REW, on Macs seems still viable.
I expect the Distortion thing to be a small fix or perhaps some parameter I have overlooked.
DD
Distortion is an environmental thing. You're either seeing distortion in your measurements, or you're not—this isn't "configurable." I'd say that if you're seeing those distortion peaks, then you might want to look at your signal chain to see why it's distorting to begin with, and measure until it mostly disappears.
 

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Working Together

Interesting points well stated Chris. Also firmly On Topic I reckon.

The Ex/Im thing is not so on topic. I am not sure what you are saying re distortion. I can see the harmonic distortion traces in FM, but when the same sweep is Ex/Im to REW, the Distortion graph has nothing but the fundamental trace. And, the usual pre-0 distortion image is entirely missing. Note this seems similar to BoB Katz earlier posts. Let's continue this in email.
DD
 

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Exporting Import

I have done a little testing. Exporting from FM and importing to REW seems to be working perfectly.
No need to Normalise and I am choosing 32Bit Export. The Distortion components do not make it across, it seems they cannot be, or are not included, within an Exported WAV. This is hardly a drawback as Distortion can be viewed in FM in any case.

DD
 

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44.1

Regarding the other issue, I have been informed that
Apple's Javasound implementation only appears to work for devices that operate at 44.1k.
We do find examples of REW working at 48K, e.g. after an Import. But it won't communicate with properly with an interface running at 48K, with or without the workaround. I am guessing that this new 'broken' behaviour could well be due to changes caused by Mavericks.
DD
 

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i down loaded the REW and after unsuccessfully running a calibration. the static noise is still on my interface even after Ive uninstalled the rew program. On Mac oSX 10.9
I'm using a Lexicon Omega USB interface
 

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My rig: MacBook 2.13 GHz Intel Duo, 2 GB RAM, OS 10.6.8, PreSouns Firebox (2-channel)

I did all the recommended steps for this workaround, and was not successful. I configured Step 3 as suggested, but when I got to Step 5 and clicked "Pass Thru" I never got any meter bounce in the LineIn app window. I've attached grabs of REW5 preference (screen1), LineIn (screen2) and Audio MIDI Set-Up (screen3) windows. The REW5 Prefs gives me default, SoundFlower 2ch, built-in mic, built-in input:line in, PreSouns Firebox and SoundFlower 64 ch for input. The REW5 output choices are default and Java Sound Engine. With LIneIn the input choices are the same plus "silence". I included the Audio MIDI window just in case.

Any other suggestions? Or is this "operator error"? Do I need a Ph.D. ("push here dummy")? Thanks for helping.

Cheers!
AP
 

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Hi everyone - first time posting here :) Hopefully I have the right thread...

I'm new to REW. I was hoping to use REW with a Mac (running Mavericks), a UMIK-1 mic, and a HDMI connection. I understand that this is currently not possible - is this correct? (I would be using these in combination with SoundFlower and LineIn).

Thanks
 

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Hi everyone - first time posting here :) Hopefully I have the right thread...

I'm new to REW. I was hoping to use REW with a Mac (running Mavericks), a UMIK-1 mic, and a HDMI connection. I understand that this is currently not possible - is this correct? (I would be using these in combination with SoundFlower and LineIn).

Thanks
( Currently,), there is not a single report of a user, successfully running this software/hardware combo ( REW-UMIK-1 ) on a Mac using Mavericks as the OS, ( there are many, many negative reports ) .


:sn:
 
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