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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I currently own the Pioneer 1019 and have not been impressed with it since I bought it. I am looking to upgrade my avr to something I can have and not worry about upgrading a few years down the road. I have read nothing but good reviews about the Denon x4000, so I went to Magnolia and listened to it and liked it and listened to it next to the Marantz 7008 and I could not really hear a difference.....well in my opinion.

I was wondering if anyone could recommend another receiver to go listen to.

I am currently running 7.1 with Yamaha NS series fronts, surrounds, backs, and PA120 as my sub. I am looking for a receiver that will last for years and be ready for a speaker upgrade when the time comes. Basically the best sounding receiver within a budget of $1,500 or less and using the Audyssey MultEQ XT32.

Thanks in advance,
Jeff
 

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The X4000 gets nothing but rave reviews. We upgraded from a Marantz SR5007 to a Denon AVR-4520CI and did so for the amplifier section and the XT32 w/SubEQ HT. I can't say the 4520 sounds any better than any other unit.

If you're happy with how the X4000 sounds, you'll be happy with it once you get home and run XT32. As to how long the technology will stay current, that's up to the manufactures.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The X4000 gets nothing but rave reviews. We upgraded from a Marantz SR5007 to a Denon AVR-4520CI and did so for the amplifier section and the XT32 w/SubEQ HT. I can't say the 4520 sounds any better than any other unit.

If you're happy with how the X4000 sounds, you'll be happy with it once you get home and run XT32. As to how long the technology will stay current, that's up to the manufactures.
so you couldnt hear a difference between the 5007 and the 4520?
 

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Pioneer SC-72 would be comparable to the AVR X-4000.
Sorry just realized you wanted Audessey.
The X-4000 should be a great AVR.
 

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so you couldnt hear a difference between the 5007 and the 4520?
Nope. But I have to acknowledge that I wasn't looking to hear a difference. I was looking for the better amplifier section and XT32/SubEQ HT. And what I was looking for in room correction software and amplification, I was rewarded with. I'm a very happy camper and I thank God pretty much every day for the improvement.

Once all amplifiers are equalized, and working within specifications, double-blind tests have shown that the most experienced user listeners, using familiar recorded material, can't choose above random chance between their amplifier and a cheepie. We run two separate subwoofers, hence the need for SubEQ HT and it has been shown time and again that XT32 is superior to XT and personal testing has show me that XT32 w/SubEQ HT is superior to XT plus Anti-Mode 8033S II.

If you check out our photo album you'll see before and after graphs that empirically back up my above.
 

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I currently own the Pioneer 1019 and have not been impressed with it since I bought it. I am looking to upgrade my avr to something I can have and not worry about upgrading a few years down the road. I have read nothing but good reviews about the Denon x4000, so I went to Magnolia and listened to it and liked it and listened to it next to the Marantz 7008 and I could not really hear a difference.....well in my opinion. I was wondering if anyone could recommend another receiver to go listen to. I am currently running 7.1 with Yamaha NS series fronts, surrounds, backs, and PA120 as my sub. I am looking for a receiver that will last for years and be ready for a speaker upgrade when the time comes. Basically the best sounding receiver within a budget of $1,500 or less and using the Audyssey MultEQ XT32. Thanks in advance, Jeff
I believe I have heard others say that the Marantz 7008 is almost identical to the 4520 or X4000, so chances are you would not hear a difference. I also talked to a guy that had the 8801 and 4520 and told me I would gain nothing sound wise over my 4520 moving to the 8801. I am looking for a new pre pro myself. I have a few in mind.
 

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When we were hunting for an upgrade for the SR5007, I was told the Pre-Pro in the 4520CI is a scaled down version of the 8801.
 

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When we were hunting for an upgrade for the SR5007, I was told the Pre-Pro in the 4520CI is a scaled down version of the 8801.
I believe it's scaled down from the AVP-A1HDCI, which is their top end pre-pro. The basic technologies are there in both, but outside of the AVP-A1HDCI being only a pre-pro, its also fully balanced internally, where the 4529CI is not. Otherwise they are quite similar in nearly every way except cost.
 

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Otherwise they are quite similar in nearly every way except cost.
AV8801 or AVP-A1HDCI, considering the price of either of these units, which ever the 4520 is a scaled down version of, agreeing with you, this makes the 4520 a screaming good package, for a screaming good price.
 

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AV8801 or AVP-A1HDCI, considering the price of either of these units, which ever the 4520 is a scaled down version of, agreeing with you, this makes the 4520 a screaming good package, for a screaming good price.
My thoughts exactly. And if you go the next step, the X4000 (which also has pre-outs) has all the important stuff the 4520 has for even less.
 

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My thoughts exactly. And if you go the next step, the X4000 (which also has pre-outs) has all the important stuff the 4520 has for even less.
The exception, the amplifier section isn't as robust as the 4520 which is good to 4ohm as opposed to 6ohm for the X4000. From what I've read, even nominal 8ohm speakers can be dragged down to <4ohm so for my needs, this is an important feature. If one doesn't need this feature, then in my opinion, agreeing with you, the X4000 is a screaming good deal.
 

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The exception, the amplifier section isn't as robust as the 4520 which is good to 4ohm as opposed to 6ohm for the X4000. From what I've read, even nominal 8ohm speakers can be dragged down to <4ohm so for my needs, this is an important feature. If one doesn't need this feature, then in my opinion, agreeing with you, the X4000 is a screaming good deal.
Agreed, but don't put too much emphasis on it. Yes, the impedance curve of any 8 ohm speaker can dip below 4 ohms, but that doesn't mean an amp spec'ed at 6 ohms can't drive it. The impedance dips mean that statistically there will be program dependent momentary loads below 4 ohms, but the exact demand on the amp depends on how much power is demanded into that load and for how long. If a short program peak happens to land in the 4 ohm area of the curve, it will be driven just fine. It's a question of how low the curve dips, the Q of the dip, and as a result how much program material lands in that area statistically. The higher the Q of the dip, the less chance of peaking out the amp in normal use because the chances of a maximum output peak landing in that region are very low, and the chances of a sustained maximum signal there approach zero.

That's why we deal with impedance averages, not small curve-area dips. If, on average, a speaker load is 4 ohms, then an amp rated at 6 stands a fair chance of having some trouble delivering peak power to it. That doesn't mean it can't drive the load at all though, nor does it mean the amp will shut down during normal operation. It just means the maximum happens earlier.

It's always educational to look at the impedance curve of your speakers. Just remember, its the average of the curve, not the peak deviation from average.

But of course if you have the cash, and you aren't hooked on separates, the 4520 is the clear choice for that and other reasons.
 

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But of course if you have the cash, and you aren't hooked on separates, the 4520 is the clear choice for that and other reasons.
We upgraded to the 4520 from a Marantz SR5007 because the 5007's amplifier couldn't handle the load. I didn't have the cash but instead, had the credit so I hit the hip marked plastic and purchased a 4520. At the time, Denon had a deal going where delivered, they threw a DBT-3313UDCI universal Blu-ray player into the deal with full authorized dealer warranty for $2,200.00 USD. That kind of Godfather deal, I couldn't refuse. :p

The point, through first hand experience, I learned about the need for the amplifier in the AVR to be able to handle the load or you're going hear the speakers fade to the background as the demands of the sound track are ramped up.

(i'm just a layperson so I only have what I've read and personal experience to guide me on issues of this kind)

I can't find an impedance curve for our speakers.
 

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I am going to be the odd one out here...I had an X4000 for two months and while it was "good" there was always something off about it coming from a big high end DIY 2-channel system. I switched to an Anthem MRX-500 and the change has been very satisfying. I like ARC better than XT32 and the sound seems to have better incrementals...the Denon sounded like it was either on or off...hard to describe I know but I feel like the Anthem has more going on between the peaks and valleys. I have been extremely happy with it and I plan to upgrade to another Anthem when the time comes.

You should be able to score an MRX-510 for around $1500 from a local dealer, tax included.
 

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I was looking at target graphs for ARC 2 and if I'm reading the graphs correctly, ARC 2 crushes bass.

MRX-710 review



ARC 2 requires hand entry of distances vs the automatic measure-and-set provided be XT32/SubEQ HT. From the above graph, it shows ARC 2 crushing bass output. The point, based on the above, bolstered by personal experience with XT32/SubEQ HT and lesser room correction systems, I would stick with the X4000.
 

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Not sure I follow as those are targeting a cutoff of 40-50hz and allowing overlap with the sub as expected. Can you elaborate?

Manually entering distance will almost always be more accurate than auto calibration. My X4000 wanted to say my left was 1ft further than my right even though they were the same.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Thanks guy...I think ill be picking up the x4000 this weekwnd. BB said only 30 left in maryland. Thanks for all the input
 

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The 710 may meet many people's needs, but as far as I can tell the USB port is for firmware updates only and the Ethernet is for ARC only.
At this price point that's a pretty big hole.

I use a hard drive and an iPod on the USB multiple times a week.
When I bought my gear Ethernet was not common, I would like to have it and I would want it to have full functionality.
 
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