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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi,

I want to try to EQ my HT by myself with some external devices to obtain an Harman like curve instead of using Audyssey MultEQ XT in my Integra DTC 9.8.

My home theater consist of an Integra DTC 9.8 sending his processing to 3 Crown CTS 600 feeding 5 Martin Audio Effect 5 and the LFE to a Behringer BFD1124DSP then to a Martin Logan Abyss.

So my LFE is equalized.

I thought about using the graphic EQ in my Integra but I keep reading that the Graphic EQs do not do the job and that we should use PEQ.

So I read about BSS Blu products... they are too expensive for me. But maybe that an old BSS SW9088 could do the trick. Are 12 bands per channel PEQ is enough to EQ from 80 to 20k?

If so, do you know which filters are apply to obtain an Harman curve?

Thanks!
 

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Stratfordguy;1273434 said:
So I read about BSS Blu products... they are too expensive for me. But maybe that an old BSS SW9088 could do the trick. Are 12 bands per channel PEQ is enough to EQ from 80 to 20k?
Interesting, can’t say I’ve ever heard of that one. Be curious to see how it works for you, especially to find out if it’s sufficiently quiet.

Just because you can, don’t be tempted to over-equalize. Six filters for the main channels should be enough in most cases.


If so, do you know which filters are apply to obtain an Harman curve?
I don’t know anything about the Harman curve, except that it’s often a mistake to implement someone else’s pre-set room curve. Every room is different, and the slope of the curve required for perceived linear response is highly dependent on the size of the room and distance the seating is from the front speakers. If you haven’t already, you might want to check my article on house curves.


Another question. Am I on the wrong track thinking that I can do better than Audyssey?
XT32 (assuming that’s what you mean by XT) is supposed to be Audyssey’s best, especially if you use Wayne Myer’s (AudiocRaver) recommendations for mic locations for the calibration. I think “better” is probably highly relevant here, unless Audyssey is able to duplicate the Harmon curve you’re after.

Regards,
Wayne
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
The JBL Synthesis SDEC 3000, 3500 and 4500 are rebadge BSS Soundweb products so I guess it will do just fine in home setups. Let's hope the old 9088 is as silent as the newest generation.

As for the Harman curve, here is what it looks like:



That is what I want to achieve from all speakers at my sweet spot.

As for Audyssey, it is just the XT version, not the XT32.

It is not that it sound bad. It is just that I want to try something else and I tought about PEQ.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Hi Peter,

Can you tell me what you are refering to? Level, Distance, X-Over or something else?

And by the way, do you think we can do better manually than Audyssey MultEQ XT?

Thank you.
 

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Hi Peter,

Can you tell me what you are refering to? Level, Distance, X-Over or something else?

And by the way, do you think we can do better manually than Audyssey MultEQ XT?

Thank you.
Yes - in general, the room correction packages try to optimize phase, crossover, impulse, level matching, and timbre matching, etc based on measured response, reflections, modes, etc. in your room. I won't pretend to have a complete understanding of the science. I do know that certain issues can't be corrected with EQ filters alone. EQ is certainly a big part of the change we notice, but all aspects are designed to work together.

Speaking purely in terms of EQ and measured frequency sweep response, I do believe an informed person can do better than XT with a manually adjustable PEQ. When it comes to measuring and correcting for phase, impulse, delay, etc I think most people are better off allowing an automated system like Audyssey to do that.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I just receive my BSS. It is in great condition and is working fine. Now, need to find some time to integrate it in the HT chain.
 

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I just receive my BSS. It is in great condition and is working fine. Now, need to find some time to integrate it in the HT chain.
Congrats! It's always fun to get presents in the mail! Hope it adds to your enjoyment of your system!


Just because you can, don’t be tempted to over-equalize. Six filters for the main channels should be enough in most cases.

I don’t know anything about the Harman curve, except that it’s often a mistake to implement someone else’s pre-set room curve. Every room is different, and the slope of the curve required for perceived linear response is highly dependent on the size of the room and distance the seating is from the front speakers. If you haven’t already, you might want to check my article on house curves.
:yeahthat:
Use 3 or 4 of the six filters for the bass region below 200-300Hz. Bass is problematic and usually needs more help than upper frequencies, which combine to produce non-equalizable comb-filtering. Happily, such filtering mostly goes unnoticed by our limited human hearing. I would use the remaining 1 or 2 PEQs to tame peaks under 3kHz. Use some of the unit's remaining PEQ to create your house curve. But like Wayne says, don't go overboard. Keep in mind that the curve you want at first probably won't sound like you thought it would, so you'll need to repeat the process more than once to get the results you're looking for. In other words, house curves involve personal taste in addition to the factors Wayne mentioned.

Have you had a chance to review Wayne's house curve article? Thoughts?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Yes, I already looked at Wayne's house curve article. And it will be really helpful.

As my speakers are THX certified and have a frequency response of 80Hz - 20kHz, I will start my measurements with my crossover set on all speakers at 80Hz. What do you think?

One question thought. As the 20 to 80 as a bumb, what is the better way to implement it? Setting my subwoofer level accordingly higher or reproduce the bumb with the eq?

And what will be the effect on the LFE content if I set my level higher?

Also I guess I will remove my BFD1124P and use another BSS channel instead for the subwoofer.

So if I understand you all right, I can use a house curve and measure as a starting point and listen and play with it until it suites my taste right?
 

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As my speakers are THX certified and have a frequency response of 80Hz - 20kHz, I will start my measurements with my crossover set on all speakers at 80Hz. What do you think?
Good question! I have to leave this one for the experts, but I would like to comment that an 80Hz crossover point is commonly used because we tend to localize sounds above that frequency. No one likes to hear bass moving back and forth between their sub and mains!

I would also like to add that experimenting with crossover points often yields better results than following "rules." I'm not sure about THX-certified speakers, but many others are not accurately rated. Beware of ratings that don't specify the magnitude at cutoff. For example, an 80Hz cutoff frequency would be spec'd at -3dB. So why bring all this to your attention? If your speakers are already rolled-off at 80Hz (by their internal crossovers), then you have no control over the mains' cutoff frequency and slope. That means low frequency duties might need to be handed over to the sub slightly higher for good SPL in the crossover region. But... that in-turn means some low-f notes will start to have localization issues.

Here's an excerpt from a THX speaker review I found. The review is old, but I believe IMHO that the principles still apply:
"(One) pitfall of the THX crossover system is that because of the quick transition from subwoofer to satellite, and the fact that 80 Hz lies in a slightly more sensitive range of human hearing, compared to a full octave down at 40 Hz, the successful integration requires more stringent level-matching. This, in turn, limits the common practice of using the subwoofer as a low frequency tone control. You may get a couple of dB up and down to dial the bass level in to taste, but many listeners typically have the subwoofer 8 -10 dB higher for dramatic effect. That may do with more gradual crossover curves having 40 - 50 Hz points, but at 80 Hz, the sudden shift in frequency response will call attention to itself, generating an irritating boom."

"On top of that, raising the subwoofer level too high brings the high frequency content that the crossover attenuated up as well, without raising the output of the satellites one bit. Hence the subwoofer begins to challenge the output of the satellites that should contribute the vast majority of information in that frequency range, generating confusing localization cues. The whole point of this tangent is that the THX subwoofer/satellite crossover arrangement requires deliberate steps to set up properly, and everything must be correct to make it work. THX processors don't just put a test tone into the setup to make your room shake. If you want to do THX correctly, get an SPL meter or a spectrum analyzer and truly match levels, then crank it two or three decibels if you want. If you need a real bass boost to serve up the goodies the way you like 'em, and want to do it with a THX system, check out a good EQ. AudioControl and Rane both make excellent ones that meet THX certification."


One question thought. As the 20 to 80 as a bumb, what is the better way to implement it? Setting my subwoofer level accordingly higher or reproduce the bumb with the eq?

And what will be the effect on the LFE content if I set my level higher?
Definitely use EQ to tame the bump. Increasing subwoofer level boosts all frequencies in its operating range. That will upset the balance of lower frequencies with the rest of the spectrum, causing the sub to stand-out instead of blend-in. LFE content remains unchanged--as it's determined by the source material--but will be boosted along with the bass-managed signal. The final result might be too much bass and/or localization issues with the sub.


So if I understand you all right, I can use a house curve and measure as a starting point and listen and play with it until it suites my taste right?
Measure first. Next, correct room/speakers for flat response. Then create house curve and adjust as needed. Correct!
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Great news.

I have made my 5 3 pins phoenix to 3 pins phoenix balanced cables.

Everything is now plugged and it works. No hum, no ground loop, no hiss or noisy channel. :jiggy:

I will also get rid of my BFD1124p and EQ my subwoofer with the BSS.

Now, as soon as I have a day off, it will be measurement time!
 
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