Home Theater Forum and Systems banner
1 - 20 of 35 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I know you guys have probably seen tons of these threads here...I have been searching through your forums for a few weeks for help. I have been posting on other forums and most of them lead to this site as the best place for help with DIY subwoofers.

I need to add a sub woofer to my living room and I wanted to go with a DIY options because I like to build things and I am bored with not many projects planned for the year. And I know I can get more bang for the buck if I attempt to build this with a good quality driver and amp.

My neighbour is going to help me with this and he has some exception wood working skills and equipment and will be helping me with the cabinet.

I have been reading and posting on other forums and have looked at a few different designs and drivers but I am not sure if what I have is the best I can get. So I came here to see what other ideas I can get

2 ideas that I have are
1. Build something like the PR boxes that AE sells. With an active 15 inch driver and dual 18 inch passives and power it with the daytom rack mount amp from Parts express.
2. Build 2 separate sealed boxes with 12 inch driver like the Shiva x2. and power it with the same amp.

I know that AE is having troubles with getting their drivers out right now so I am not sure what to make of that. Is the AV15H driver worth the wait or is there something else out there comparable (the tempest?)

Another driver I have considered buying is the TC sounds drivers from PE, either the 15 inch or the 12 inch one depending on what I decide to build. How do they compare since they cost a little more and are they worth it. Also how does the Shiva stack up to them and the AV drivers from AE.

Is there a different make of driver that is suggested than the ones I mentioned above?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 ·
I love to listen to music more than HT however I like to be able to feel the rumble when I am watching a movie. My living room is about 20 by 16 and its open to the rest of the main level along the 16 foot wall.
If I was doing the dual subs I would use them as a stereo setup besides the front wall. If I was doing the PR build I would place it in the corner of the living room along the front wall.

I just want something that can produce quality and accurate bass that I can enjoy. I am not one that likes to turn things up but I love to be able to feel my music and movies as well as hear it.

The rest of my setup in the living room is such

I have some Polk SDA 1.2 speakers that I have in a seperate 2 channel setup with its own 2 channel pre-amp.
I have a set of Polk rti10's for my front and Csi5's for my center along with a couple of polk bookshelves hooked up to my receiver for my 5.1
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,069 Posts
It sounds like you need to go sealed but as we all know with sealed. A TC sounds LMS-R 15" sub with 2000 watts and 3 cu ft box (x2) is going to give you probably the best result for the money. They are very accurate drivers and love lots off power. The shiva needs a 2 cu ft box with 1000 watts and is down by 4db when compared to the tc sounds sub. The AE subs as we know are having issues.

PR subs are ported subs without a port essentially but drop like a bomb below tuning which is where the sealed option would be better.

Remember that is a pretty big room and you will need two subs for definite.

The other option is a TC LMS-R 15 ported tuned 17hz in a 8 cu ft box. Gives 116db at 20hz and models well. Needs a EP4000 or alike for each sub for full efficency. Its probably not going to sound quite as good as the same driver in a sealed sub for music but when you put a movie on you will notice the difference.

Diy is going to be cheaper than a commercial or alike sub but the rewards from building your own sub and setting it up gives you noting but a sense off real achievement.

cheers

Graham
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
What about if I wanted to do 2 separate subs sealed.. I think I might be better off going with a 12 inch driver in each box correct?
What would I use to provide 2000 watts of power, a pro amp? Do I really need that much? I dont really want to have to worry about the sound from the pro amp fan. I dont want to make the box very big since I already have 2 sets of speakers along the front wall and its boderline acceptable to the wife.

Wont 2 separate sealed subs provide better distribution to even out room irregularities?

Other than the problems that they are having manufacturing the AE sub's where they a good quality sub? Any other suggestions in drivers or is the TC sounds sub worth the extra coin and the best bang for your buck?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
How does the tempest from diyaudio compare to the lmsr15 for a sealed application? It is a little cheaper

Are there any recommendations for plate amps that can be used for a sealed box?

I kind or want to stay away from pro amps if I can. I was going to use the dayton amp and have it sit on top of the subwoofer.
Since the dayton has hookups for 2 drivers, how does that translate into amount of power per driver if I hook them up in a way that the amp sees a total of 4 ohms combined from the 2 drivers.

I am not one to run things too loud and that is why I was thinking that 1000 watts would be all I need. Unless there is something I am missing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
How does the tempest from diyaudio compare to the lmsr15 for a sealed application? It is a little cheaper

Are there any recommendations for plate amps that can be used for a sealed box?

I kind or want to stay away from pro amps if I can. I was going to use the dayton amp and have it sit on top of the subwoofer.
Since the dayton has hookups for 2 drivers, how does that translate into amount of power per driver if I hook them up in a way that the amp sees a total of 4 ohms combined from the 2 drivers.

I am not one to run things too loud and that is why I was thinking that 1000 watts would be all I need. Unless there is something I am missing.
The Tempest driver doesn't come with free shipping so it doesn't end up being much cheaper in the end than the LMS-R. I'd buy a Behringer EP4000 for $300 and either of those 2 drivers and enjoy if it were me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
92 Posts
Don't be scared of the pro-audio amp. The best thing I've done is my EP2500 / Reckhorn B-2 combination. Power to spare for my Maelstrom 18" and the amp does it effortlessly. The fan mod is really easy and quiets the amp down a lot.

I also agree on the recommendation of going with 15" drivers. The difference in price between 12" and 15" with most brands is pretty small. You get more Sd * Xmax per dollar with 15".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Is there any advantages to going with the 12 inch driver at all? My friend who is helping me build this said that the 12 inch driver would be more accurate since its response times would be slightly better seeing that it has less cone to move...
My argument was the same.. the price difference is so small.
Could I just use 1 ep2500/4000 to power 2 of the lms-r 15 in individual sealed boxes? How would I need to wire the drivers and the amp? Are there any other good pro amps recommended. I guess I can look through local classified to find a pro amp used.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
19,397 Posts
Is there any advantages to going with the 12 inch driver at all?

A 12 inch driver in the same series would have less output in a smaller box.

My friend who is helping me build this said that the 12 inch driver would be more accurate since its response times would be slightly better seeing that it has less cone to move...
Simply not true if a sub is in the proper sized cabinet.

Could I just use 1 ep2500/4000 to power 2 of the lms-r 15 in individual sealed boxes?
The sub will have to be modeled to see what he power requirements are.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
In my living room I have 2 audio set ups.
One is run off my Integra receiver (DTR 9.9 with a single sub out). The fronts run to a parasound amp and then to polk rti10 towers. The center and rear run directly off the receiver and are polk csi5's and rt55i's

The second is a parasound 2 channel preamp (p3) that runs to a parasound hca-2500 and then to polk SDA 1.2's.

How can I integrate my subs so that they will run on both of my audio setups? Should I consider the line level inputs into the back of most plate amps for the subs and let the plate amp do the crossover? The P3 pre does not have a seperate sub out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,069 Posts
The LMS-R 15" driver works very well in a 3 cu ft box with 2000 watts input power so effectively a single EP4000 is really ideally required to power each driver. You could power a single LMS-R 15" driver in a 10 cu ft box tuned to 15hz with one channel off the EP4000 (650 watts rms 4 ohms) and would still give you good spl and plenty off headroom if you decided to buy another EP4000 and run one off each sub.

cheers

Graham
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Ok So I think I have decided on going with the LMS-R 15 sealed. 2 of them in seperate boxes.
However due to a lack of room I want to build a shelf for the behringer amp on top of the sub box itself. The front of the amp will be covered with the grill cloth and it will be open in the back.
With the fan mod on the ep2500 does it run silent enough that I would not hear it across the room?
Also Would I need a crossover off some sort since I am going with a sealed some and will need to boost the lower end?
So a sealed box of internal dimensions 18x18x18 inches would be a good place to start
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,069 Posts
Ive just designed a 3.2 cu ft sealed LMS-R 15 for a chap. It is 20" cube and will take a EP2500 brigded into 4 ohms no probs. You won't need a hpf for that, you will be fine.

Two off these would give you around 100db at 10hz plus room gain and 123db approx at 50hz.

cheers

Graham
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,069 Posts
A hpf (high pass filter) is a device which in basic terms cut frequencies in the low hz. This is to stop a driver from going over max excursion. The hpf would need to be set to the appropriate frequency cut off for what ever design you need. They are very rarely used in sealed subs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,069 Posts
You can either get a BFD (behringer feedback destroyer) or a mini dsp. The later is being raved about alot and you can import the REW filters straight into the mini dsp. Its a software based EQ and you can add plugins for hpf and other things.

http://www.minidsp.com/onlinestore/...-box/flypage/71-minidsp-balanced-2x4?sef=hcfp

I believe the balanced version is required because the input level is higher which will suit pro amps better.

With a BFD you can only EQ to 20hz but this is easily fixed with a couple off filters to bring the 10-20hz region up. You simply add a large bandwidth boost followed by a cut in the similar frequency range.

We can advise you on what you need to do if you went down the BFD route.

Have a read on the mini dsp website.

Let me know if you have any more questions.

cheers

Graham
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Pardon my ignorance but how does the mini dsp connect to the receiver and the blanced inputs of the power amp? Is there a special cable that goes with it?

When you guys say 2400 watts are we talking about RMS or peak.. Does the behringer ep25-- really put out 2400 watts rms into 4 ohms in a mono configuration?
 
1 - 20 of 35 Posts
Top