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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Dear Users,
I am new to this, forgive my ignorance but i really need somehelp,
I'm willing to buy a pioneer receiver VSX-1021. but im unable to match compatible speakers for it,
its amplification specs state the following:
›› 120W x 7 (1 kHz, THD 0.05% @ 8 ohms)
›› 90W x 7 (20 Hz – 20 kHz, THD 0.08% @ 8 ohms FTC)

does it mean it outputs 90 watts per channel? what about the 120W? is it the maximum power output per speaker?
it also states that the impedance is 8 ohms. what is this? can i use a speaker whose impedance is 4 or 6 ohms? plz advise...
Another thing in choosing the speakers: what speaker specs should I be looking at? How much should the power be? how many watts? if the receiver outputs 90W / channel, the speaker must be between which range? what is the minimum and maximum a speaker can be? please help me and advise because i am new to this and i really need some help. thank you guyz
 

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First of all dont get all caught up in the numbers, They are in many ways meaningless. Receiver companies arte not goverened by any rules as to how they rate their receiver amplification sections.
Yes you can run 4-8 Ohm speakers the biggest numbers on speakers to look at is the efficiency if they have a rating of 90db or higher most receivers will have little issue driving them.
Receivers will only output there rated power output in two channel mode not all 7 or 9 as they advertise. This is a limitation of the power supply that receivers are shipped with as they are far to small to power all the channels amps. Generally receivers will only output 60% of their rated output if all channels are being used.
 

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You can look here for a review of that receiver:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/receivers/1371-pioneer-vsx-1021k-71-av-receiver.html?start=4

Many speakers will have a note similar to:
Compatible with amplifiers from 40 - 160 watts.

There is no firm rule about matching amp wattage to speaker wattage. If you under power speakers, you will turn up the receiver to get more volume, and overdrive the amp which will give you more distortion. Distortion is bad, and can cause speaker damage. If you connect a vastly overpowered amp to your speakers, you will turn it up until it is loud enough and then stop, with every thing sounding good. Unless your speakers are not powerful enough for the room, at which point you turn up the amp until you blow speakers.

The receiver you are looking at is somewhat reasonable for the price range. Pair it with reasonably efficient speakers up to 3 times the price of the receiver and you should be ok.

My personal preference is Onkyo receivers with Paradigm speakers, but that is just me, and just my opinion. Accessories4less can get you a onkyo 609 or maybe 709 in the price range of the pioneer, and the Paradigm Monitor 7, or 9, or 11, would blow you away.
 

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Dear Users,
I am new to this, forgive my ignorance but i really need somehelp,
I'm willing to buy a pioneer receiver VSX-1021. but im unable to match compatible speakers for it,
its amplification specs state the following:
›› 120W x 7 (1 kHz, THD 0.05% @ 8 ohms)
›› 90W x 7 (20 Hz – 20 kHz, THD 0.08% @ 8 ohms FTC)
The Pioneer will handle 6 ohms -
Power Output Per Channel ([email protected]) 130 watts

You can drive many speakers with this - what speaker brands are you thinking about?

Do you like to read - some info
http://www.the-home-cinema-guide.com/matching-amps-and-speakers.html#axzz1i299iZqq

http://www.the-home-cinema-guide.com/speaker-impedance-matching.html#axzz1i299iZqq

http://www.the-home-cinema-guide.com/speaker-power-rating.html#axzz1i299iZqq
 

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I wouldn't worry about speaker "power". As stated above, as long as you don't play very loud material for long periods of time, most speakers will do. Sound quality is more important. Most of your listening will be in the 1 to 10 watt range. Speakers have a far greater effect on sound quality than receivers, so spend some time researching and listening to as many speakers as you can. Have fun. Dennis
 

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Hello,
In truth, your concerns should be reversed. Does your AVR have enough power to drive the speakers. An earlier version of the Pioneer VSX-10xx Series output less than 30 Watts when Bench Tested into 5 Channels.

Provided you are using a Subwoofer and crossover the Speakers to 80hz, most any speaker will work fine as the Subwoofer will take a great deal of stress of the AVR's Amplifiers. While somewhat counter intuitive to some, many more speakers have been blown by too little power (in the form of clipping or distortion) than from too much power.
Cheers,
JJ
 

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JJ is correct: distortion (clipping, harmonic, etc.) is murder on speakers.
 

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But after all is said and done, its nice to know that a 100 watt amplifier (may!) generate the same amount of heat as a 100 watt incandescent light bulb - of which neither the 'loudness' nor the light output are measured in watts, but in SPL and in lumen/candlepower respectively.

Rather, the use of 'wattage' is a rather awkward way to state the performance of a stereo (when voltage is a much better indicator), just as it is with a lightbulb, seeing as how wattage indicates how much electrical energy is dissipated as heat energy - or, from another point of view, how effective your stereo or light bulb or hair dryer or toaster oven is as a space heater.

And seeing as how we are not referencing the proper units indicating the quality that we 'really want to know', I am rather surprised that they do not change the ratings of a space heater, where the rating actually does correspond to the amount of heat generated, to something more obtuse ( like maybe its horsepower ) in keeping with societies' norms of intentional obfuscation...:D

And it it helps, my Vita-Mix pulverizer apparently plays louder than your amplifier as it is rated at 1350 watts...:bigsmile:
And you amp is also rated at 120w/746w/hp = .16 HP Useful, ain't it....
 

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But the amplifiers do put out voltage "watts", put an incandescent light bulb on the end of your speaker wires and play some music It will power the lightbulb just fine.
The power draw that a receiver draws from the wall outlet is also measured in Watts dont expect a receiver that only draws 300wats to actually put out 1200watts to the speakers. kind of defies the laws of physics.
 

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Receiver companies arte not goverened by any rules as to how they rate their receiver amplification sections.
This is patently false. All amplifiers sold in the US are rated according to FTC regulations.
 

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Hate to disagree, jackfish, but in the specs published by the manufacturer, the differences are shown. Some rate with one channel driven, some with two, some with all. Some rate with a 1khz tone, some rate with full spectrum 20Hz-20khz. These differences have massive impact on the ratings.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
The Pioneer will handle 6 ohms -
Power Output Per Channel ([email protected]) 130 watts

You can drive many speakers with this - what speaker brands are you thinking about?

Do you like to read - some info
http://www.the-home-cinema-guide.com/matching-amps-and-speakers.html#axzz1i299iZqq

http://www.the-home-cinema-guide.com/speaker-impedance-matching.html#axzz1i299iZqq

http://www.the-home-cinema-guide.com/speaker-power-rating.html#axzz1i299iZqq
thank you a lot for these helpful links, I will read them all to understand better the amplifier rating powers.
 

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Hate to disagree, jackfish, but in the specs published by the manufacturer, the differences are shown. Some rate with one channel driven, some with two, some with all. Some rate with a 1khz tone, some rate with full spectrum 20Hz-20khz. These differences have massive impact on the ratings.
How can you disagree with fact? Amplifier power ratings are governed by regulations, that is a fact.

http://law.justia.com/cfr/title16/16-1.0.1.4.47.html

Sure the application of the rules can result in some differences, but if one understands the rules and what is being specified, the results are also understandable.
 

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How can you disagree with fact? Amplifier power ratings are governed by regulations, that is a fact.

http://law.justia.com/cfr/title16/16-1.0.1.4.47.html

Sure the application of the rules can result in some differences, but if one understands the rules and what is being specified, the results are also understandable.
These rules can be twisted to the point of dumbfounding the masses into thinking they are getting something good, when actually they have no idea what they are getting. I have no experience with HTIB systems so I did a quick Internet search and the first one I found was a Samsung advertised at 1000W for $199. Sounds like an impressive deal. Not trying to pick on Samsung here, just the first I found, and I'm sure their competitors conduct business likewise. It took much longer to find anymore disclosure of what they meant by 1000W. After downloading the owners manual, I found that it is 166W x2 front, 166W center, 166W x2 rear, and 170W Sub. The Freq range is listed as 140-20k for front/center/rear and 40-160. Sounds impressive...but. The law jackfish posted says:
Whenever any direct or indirect representation is made of the power output, power band or power frequency response, or distortion characteristics of sound power amplification equipment, the following disclosure shall be made clearly, conspicuously, and more prominently than any other representations or disclosures permitted under this part: The manufacturer's rated minimum sine wave continuous average power output, in watts, per channel (if the equipment is designed to amplify two or more channels simultaneously) at an impedance of 8 ohms, or, if the amplifier is not designed for an 8-ohm impedance, at the impedance for which the amplifier is primarily designed, measured with all associated channels fully driven to rated per channel power. Provided, however, when measuring maximum per channel output of self-powered combination speaker systems that employ two or more amplifiers dedicated to different portions of the audio frequency spectrum, such as those incorporated into combination subwoofer-satellite speaker systems, only those channels dedicated to the same audio frequency spectrum should be considered associated channels that need be fully driven simultaneously to rated per channel power.
All the wattage #'s Samsung provides is amplifier into 3ohms, with 3ohm speakers, but the liturature provided does not specify if the speakers are 3 ohm nominal or 3 ohm minimum. If they are 3 ohm minimum, than the wattage output across the frequency spectrum is meaningless.

The rules also state that Sub and mains power can be stated independently, which Samsung has done. However, with a passive sub powered off the receiver this is misleading as it cannot be representative of normal consumer use.

Under the optional disclosure section of the rules, it is acceptable to post wattage with 2 channels driven, to seperate the power level of each amp channel as Samsung as done. Under the requiered section which I have quoted, it is wrong to independantly measure the 5 channels driving the same frequency range, and simply add their totals.

The info presented by the manufacturer shows an amplifier capable of 166W/ch, 2 ch driven 140hz-20khz, 3ohm nominal, but the 1000W rating lies in the realm of fantasy, if not criminal misreprentation. Not to mention that I didnt find the distortion spec at rated power.
 

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This is patently false. All amplifiers sold in the US are rated according to FTC regulations.
If that was the case then most receiver companies would be facing lawsuits, every receiver bench tested that I have seen fail driving all channels to what the specifications on the manufacturers websites say. Some do better than others and some are so bad that its a disgrace but not one lives up to the laws you state.
The wording on the specifications is very misleading and gives the average user false security that they are getting true 120 watts (or whatever the specifications are) all channels driven when in fact this is not the case.
 

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If that was the case then most receiver companies would be facing lawsuits, every receiver bench tested that I have seen fail driving all channels to what the specifications on the manufacturers websites say. Some do better than others and some are so bad that its a disgrace but not one lives up to the laws you state.
The wording on the specifications is very misleading and gives the average user false security that they are getting true 120 watts (or whatever the specifications are) all channels driven when in fact this is not the case.
Indeed. It is absolutely laughable just how far off many AVR's actual measured power is compared to its rated power. This is especially true of sub $500 AVR's. Even worse is just how many consumers will choose a lower quality AVR because it is rated at 110x7 as opposed to 90 or 100x7.

The vast discrepancy between rated and actual power should be Investigated. On the plus side, very few people actually need anything close to 100 Watts into 7 Channels. Companies like NAD, Harman Kardon, and Onkyo should be commended for actually coming close to meeting or exceeding their rated power.
Cheers,
JJ
 

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But after all is said and done, its nice to know that a 100 watt amplifier (may!) generate the same amount of heat as a 100 watt incandescent light bulb - of which neither the 'loudness' nor the light output are measured in watts, but in SPL and in lumen/candlepower respectively.

Rather, the use of 'wattage' is a rather awkward way to state the performance of a stereo (when voltage is a much better indicator), just as it is with a lightbulb, seeing as how wattage indicates how much electrical energy is dissipated as heat energy - or, from another point of view, how effective your stereo or light bulb or hair dryer or toaster oven is as a space heater.

And seeing as how we are not referencing the proper units indicating the quality that we 'really want to know', I am rather surprised that they do not change the ratings of a space heater, where the rating actually does correspond to the amount of heat generated, to something more obtuse ( like maybe its horsepower ) in keeping with societies' norms of intentional obfuscation...:D

And it it helps, my Vita-Mix pulverizer apparently plays louder than your amplifier as it is rated at 1350 watts...:bigsmile:
And you amp is also rated at 120w/746w/hp = .16 HP Useful, ain't it....
Voltage would not be a very good indicator at all. Power is the appropriate measure, though it has to be qualified by response specifications and whether all channels are driven, as well as the load.

If we just specified voltage, one could build a very powerful amp that would deliver virtually no current. Not a very appealing design...:help: would be needed to drive a real loudspeaker load effetively.
 

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How can you disagree with fact? Amplifier power ratings are governed by regulations, that is a fact.

http://law.justia.com/cfr/title16/16-1.0.1.4.47.html

Sure the application of the rules can result in some differences, but if one understands the rules and what is being specified, the results are also understandable.
Agreed, there are indeed government regulations for amplifiers sold in the United States. The problem is that many manufacturers have found ways to deceive the average consumer while still staying within the regulations.
 

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The other problem with the "regulations" posted is that its all done under lab tests that are far from realistic. I believe that tests are done with a 1kHz tone, how is that by any means realistic in the real world we all send full frequency or at least in the area of 60Hz up to 20kHz and of course use many different speaker brands some that are very inefficient or that have very wide swings in resistance.
 
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