Home Theater Forum and Systems banner

61 - 80 of 122 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
14,914 Posts
The new pint bottle of AAA I received has this on the UPC label:

WDML04-78B(01)

When mixed with my Menards BB it came out to what appears to be a neutral gray by eye. :scratch:

Harp is going to check with Createx and find out if I got some of the old stock.

The older quart jug I have has this:

HF29-204101

And my older pint has this:

WDLB09-344101B4

Without more input from Createx, I have no idea what's going on here. :huh:
 

·
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
3,772 Posts
I'll be calling Createx again Monday and try to get a clearer explanation of their lot numbering system. It is clear that Mech got some of the AAA-F made with non-encapsulated aluminum (the "old" stuff). My guess is that Dick Blick doesn't have a fast turnaround of AAA-F.

As luck would have it, I too received my new bottle of AAA-F today. I ordered from Amazon, but they are just a sales front for TCPGlobal who deals primarily in automotive paints and additives. The lot number of my 16 oz. bottle of AAA-F is WDNC18-86BS(1) and I CAN CONFIRM that is DOESN'T result in a neutral gray when mixed with a 'Bermuda Beige' base!

I have samples drying of BW™ made with the new AAA-F using BB as a base and also one using SW 'Unique Gray' as a base. Should be able to report the results here tomorrow eve..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
Discussion Starter #64
Good know that I wasn't incompetent when mixing paint. Lol. Harpmaker, you are lucky, I ordered my AAA-F on Monday at 8am and it's not set to arrive until Tuesday. I am looking forward in your results.
 

·
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
3,772 Posts
Good know that I wasn't incompetent when mixing paint. Lol. Harpmaker, you are lucky, I ordered my AAA-F on Monday at 8am and it's not set to arrive until Tuesday. I am looking forward in your results.
Did you get the AAA-F from Amazon/TCPGlobal? I was fortunate that TCPG had a distribution point in SC so I got it fast via Priority Mail.

I don't want to jinx myself, but I hope to have a new BW™ base for use with the new AAA-F by the end of next week.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
Discussion Starter #66
Yea I have always ordered it off Amazon. Actually my last order I paid an extra $10 for 2-3 day delivery. And it took 10 days to get to my house. I contacted TCG and they refunded my shipping. Thats the shipping issues living in Nebraska, center of the country. But now that I think of it, shouldn't that make all delivers easier? Oh, well.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
14,914 Posts

·
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
3,772 Posts
OK, I have some results to publish, but rather than bore most of you to tears with too much data I'll post the most relevant finding. The first set of graphs is of my sample of Sherwin-Williams 'Unique Gray' and shows how neutral it is with both a spectral reflectance curve and a chromaticity graph. Below that is the same paint only new AAA-F has been added in a 4:1 ratio (20% of the mix is AAA-F) and you can see that the resulting mix is still within our neutrality tolerances.






The new AAA-F didn't affect the color of the mix much at all! It did darken the mix by about N1.5.

More testing will be done tomorrow with results published ~30 hours later. :nerd:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
Discussion Starter #69
How close is the Sherwin Williams Unique Gray when compared to Sherwin Williams Gray Screen? I was planning on mixing a little AAA-F in it when I actually get the 4.oz bottle. I have 31 oz of SW Gray Screen which is plenty for my screen though. Just dont know how much or how to tell if there is enough, I remember someone saying not to let it turn blueish. Is that all?
 

·
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
3,772 Posts
How close is the Sherwin Williams Unique Gray when compared to Sherwin Williams Gray Screen? I was planning on mixing a little AAA-F in it when I actually get the 4.oz bottle. I have 31 oz of SW Gray Screen which is plenty for my screen though. Just dont know how much or how to tell if there is enough, I remember someone saying not to let it turn blueish. Is that all?
'Gray Screen' and 'Unique Gray' are practically interchangeable. Which one is more neutral or lighter or darker depends on the individual can, at least in my experience.

When adding AAA-F to a paint, amounts less than 20% of the total mix quickly become ineffective from a reflective standpoint. When the overall amount of the old AAA-F was increased to 30% to increase reflectivity it was found to induce graininess in the image. All our tests will have to be repeated with the new AAA-F, but for now we assume it will act like the old version in all regards except for color. Even with 31 oz. of paint I would still add 8 oz. of AAA-F to get 20% (or a bit more in this case) by volume. If you want to experiment with smaller quantities of paint then adjust the amount of both base and AAA-F so they are a 4:1 ratio. 4 parts base to 1 part AAA-F.

The new AAA-F does induce a blue push, but it is minimal at 20% and way less than the original AAA-F.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
If the new AAA induce less blue, can you test it with the Glidden Lifemaster Interior Flat Mate Paint, i think its the same as diamond 450 but without the diamond finish and the same as dulux light & space absolute white with higher RGB readings (brighter white?) than the diamond 450, to see if maintain the neutrality and the withes and blacker the blacks to around N8
Dulux Light & Space Absolute White Rich Matt; Dont have the diamond finish (Glidden Lifemaster Interior Flat Mate)
RGB 249 250 247

Glidden Diamond 450 Titanium White:/ Dulux Ultra White ( With diamond finish)
36.35 31.6 245,246,243 1.43
 

·
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
3,772 Posts
If the new AAA induce less blue, can you test it with the Glidden Lifemaster Interior Flat Mate Paint, i think its the same as diamond 450 but without the diamond finish and the same as dulux light & space absolute white with higher RGB readings (brighter white?) than the diamond 450, to see if maintain the neutrality and the withes and blacker the blacks to around N8
Dulux Light & Space Absolute White Rich Matt; Dont have the diamond finish (Glidden Lifemaster Interior Flat Mate)
RGB 249 250 247

Glidden Diamond 450 Titanium White:/ Dulux Ultra White ( With diamond finish)
36.35 31.6 245,246,243 1.43
While it would be possible for me to test the Lifemaster paint it is only available in gallons so it would be prohibitively expensive. While that paint may be slightly brighter than the Diamond 450 the difference in truly minimal and you would have to view a sample of each side-by-side to tell the difference; and even then a lot of people couldn't detect it.
 

·
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
3,772 Posts
Rather than bore folks with gobs of data (at least at this early stage) I'll simply report the results of my testing of the new AAA-F this way... just mix it with any neutral gray paint 4:1 and it will work well!

Right now, the formula for the new BW™ mix would be to use a quart of paint tinted to Glidden 'Veil' as the base paint and then add 8 fl. oz. of the new AAA-F. We need to do more testing to see if the gain of the mix is the same as the old BW™. This will probably occur over the course of the summer.

Now to answer a BIG question: how can I tell if my AAA-F is made with the old or the new aluminum? The answer is easy and is the same for everyone around the world. Every bottle of AAA-F has a UPC label on it that also contains a batch number such as WDNC18-86BS(1). The key digits are the two after the hyphen. In the example those numbers are 86. Numbers of 81 and higher are the new AAA-F and numbers of 80 and lower are the old AAA-F.

The new AAA-F can be added to any neutral gray paint 4:1.
The old AAA-F must use a base tinted PPG 'Bermuda Beige' 4:1 to result in a neutral mix.

My thanks go out to the folks at Createx! They were very easy to talk to and bent over backwards to help us. :TT
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
What happens if we mix the new aaa-f with the Dulux (lumitec) absolute white in 4:1? Maintain the neutrality of the paint? It becomes a litle grey maybe N9/N8.5? And maintain the withes? Sorry the newb questions but Finaly i could buy the dulux white with lumitec, i have the epson 5020, the colors are simply gourgeos and bright withes but if i could blacker the blacks a litle bit it will be perfect. I also have some dificulty to smooth the paint, it has a lot of texture in it.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
519 Posts
If my calculations are correct (Mech and Don permitted!!:)) the old formula's RGB values (AAA) were somehow like:

R = ~0
G = ~ 80
B = ~ 130.

From Don's previous post, i assume that RGB values have changed in the new formula. It would be interesting though if Don could tell us how the L* value of the new mix is affected as well.:)
 

·
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
3,772 Posts
What happens if we mix the new aaa-f with the Dulux (lumitec) absolute white in 4:1? Maintain the neutrality of the paint? It becomes a litle grey maybe N9/N8.5? And maintain the withes? Sorry the newb questions but Finaly i could buy the dulux white with lumitec, i have the epson 5020, the colors are simply gourgeos and bright withes but if i could blacker the blacks a litle bit it will be perfect. I also have some dificulty to smooth the paint, it has a lot of texture in it.
I have not measured Dulux in the 'absolute white' base, but perhaps Mech has; I simply forget. Assuming it is similar to the Dulux paint I have measured (Dulux Diamond with lumitec) it is a warm white (meaning it's rich in the red-orange end of the spectrum). The RGB values were 248,247, 242. CIELAB L* was 97.24 (N9.7).

It's still very early in the testing phase of the new AAA-F, but so far results are very positive and adding AAA-F to a neutral or warm white in a 4:1 ratio will probably produce a very acceptable N9.

The screen surface needs to be fairly smooth to use a reflectively-enhanced mix. The aluminum particles in the mix will highlight any surface irregularities or roughness. Any surface rougher than drywall should be sanded smooth before being primed and painted. If the roughness is caused by the paint not leveling out as it dries then it should be diluted with a bit of distilled water (amount depends on whether you are rolling or spraying the paint) or use a flattening agent such as Floetrol.
 

·
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
3,772 Posts
If my calculations are correct (Mech and Don permitted!!:)) the old formula's RGB values (AAA) were somehow like:

R = ~0
G = ~ 80
B = ~ 130.

From Don's previous post, i assume that RGB values have changed in the new formula. It would be interesting though if Don could tell us how the L* value of the new mix is affected as well.:)
I have not measured the new AAA-F alone with my spectro yet, but that is rather a moot point because that info alone won't tell you how it will affect the color of a base paint. Paint chemistry is quite complex and the end result of mixing two or more colors of paint together can produce surprising results! It's still too early to start publishing definitive results, but adding AAA-F (from this date forward this will always mean the "new" AAA-F) to a paint can either darken or lighten the final color. When the base color goes below ~N7 the mix will get slightly lighter in shade. All this will be documented in time.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
14,914 Posts
I never really thought too much about the AAA measures as it was always my belief that the aluminum would skew it too much.

As for mixes using the new AAA, mine is on the way and should be here by next Monday. I expect Don and I to have this sorted out fairly quickly. :T
 
61 - 80 of 122 Posts
Top