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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I am from India and don't have much options for a good quality DIY sub locally. So I am planning to import it from PartsExpress or similar site.

Following are the list of drivers shortlisted from different sites based on the reviews:
- Dayton 15" HF / HO
- Dayton 15" MkIII
- Rythmik audio servo
- Shiva 12"
- Peerless XXLS 12"
- Eminience Lab12 12"

PA Amp : Tapco Juice J800 Power amp with SSF 9db @ 30Hz (Mackie design - FR series 800)
Overview : http://www.tapcoworld.com/products/juiceseries/index.html
Spec : http://www.tapcoworld.com/products/juiceseries/specs.html
It can output 800w @ 4ohms in bridged mode and 300w @ 4ohms with both channels driven. Is this amp okay for the subwoofer purpose? The reason for a PA amp is that the 2nd channel can be used to power a second sub, if required. Also this can be used to power my front towers using an amp switch for listening melody based / soothing kind of music for better soundstage (sub will not be used in this case). Does this amp requires any Low pass / High pass filter to be used it as a subwoofer amp?

Listening Preference :
Music - 60% (Instrumental / Classical / Pop / Melodies (Indian) / Indian movie songs)
Movies - 40% (around 20Hz (Will the SS filter @ 30Hz in the amp allow this?))

Room size : 16' x 12' with minimal acoustic treatment.

Please help me in making a very good quality sub which serves the above preference. Which is the best driver among them (suggestions are welcome to add a better one in the same price range). As Mike suggested (http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/diy-subwoofers/18185-shiva-x-css-kit-2.html#post164041) in one of the threads related to "Shiva-x or CSS", a dual purpose (Movies n Music) sub is preferred. Among the driver list, I am a little bit inclined towards Dayton 15 HF, but scared of the woofer damage at higher watts (Xmax : 14mm, Is it one side?)

The enclosure can be a little bit bigger, can be made as a part of the equipment cabinet (detached, but with the same size and shape)

Please help..

Note : I am really a novice in electronics and speaker building. This is my first speaker build.

regs
Sajith Mathew
 

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I would go with a pair of the Dayton 15" HF. 9 cu ft tuned to 18hz with a 25" long 6" port for each driver would be good with 400w on each driver maximum. If you wanted a bit smaller box you could use the HO version.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Thankyou for your quick response..
Does a pair of 15" be an overkill in a 16x12ft room? Moreover its an apartment, top floor.
Does a single sub wont give the desired performance?

If the max power handling of HF 15" is 400w, then i think i can use the J800 amp in stereo mode with 300w, for the time being. But in this case, is it recommended to leave the 2nd channel unused?

Is there any performance difference b/n HF and HO apart from the enclosure size? Which one is recommended?

Compared to the 12" subs listed above, whether the 15" HF/HO will perform better?

Also is there any other drive that can be considered in the same league (in the same price range or lesser :))

I would go with a pair of the Dayton 15" HF. 9 cu ft tuned to 18hz with a 25" long 6" port for each driver would be good with 400w on each driver maximum. If you wanted a bit smaller box you could use the HO version.
 

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In a top floor 16x12ft room all you need is a Titanic MkIII 15" with a 500 watt plate amp. It has a built in high pass filter at 18 hz which would protect the sub and it will never bottom out. You would never turn it that loud without someone knocking on your door! Just another option for you to consider.

titanic15 mk III.JPG
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Thanks Mike
Few more questions added:

- Is MKIII is the best among them? Is there any significant performance difference than HF/HO (apart from the XMax)? The reason is that it is 75$ more (including other overheads based on the sale price). Does the difference 75$ worth?
How about adding another 15 HF (each running @300w amp) instead of one MkIII @ 500w amp? Which one is better? I am planning to import the sub as a gift, so that till 200$ will be duty free. This makes the MkIII and HF a difference of ~140$.
If we compare a single MkIII and HF running at 300w, how big is the performance difference (Currently I am planning for a single driver setup till I buy another house with a dedicated HT room, currently its in a living room with minimal acoustics)

- The 500w plate amp costs 250$ and the Tapco Juice J800 (bill & warranty) costs 275$ with more power (in bridged mode) moreover it can be used for a second sub. Is it possible to make a good Hi-pass filter @ 18Hz, is it complicated?

- What about using the Dayton 240w amp with boost @ 35Hz? Any idea how much is its continuous power (is it 240w?). Does this amp can be used with HF/HO or MKIII for better performance than J800 (because its is half the price of J800. In this case probably i can get an MKIII)?

- How about powering the HF with 800w, does it damage the sub? Also, powering the MKIII with 300w is enough to get its performance?

- In stereo mode the amp o/p is 300w @ 4ohms, 480w @ 2ohms and 205w @ 8ohms. If I am using the amp in stereo mode and connecting the sub to one channel by leaving the 2nd channel, does the amp will give more power than 300w?
 

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The difference betweem the HF and HO is box size and low end out put. Both are shown with 300 watts input. Both need a Hi-pass filter @ 18Hz. The Tapco Juice J800 doesn't have a Hi-pass filter, you can either make one:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/diy-subwoofers/19570-need-subsonic-filter-3.html

Buy one:

http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=B-1

Or buy a 300 watt amp that has one:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-750

The Titanic MK III would have a little more output then the HF with the same 300 watt amp, but it has a higher Xmax and can produce more output with a 500 watt amp. The end result is which sub and amp you want to use depending on how much you want to spend.

hfho.JPG
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
So what you mean to say is that all subs can produce the desired o/p (~18Hz) but will vary the amount of o/p (db at the particular freq.). So for a home setup how much db is required for a very good bass extension? What are the chances of damaging the Daytona HT sub @ 300w tuned at ~18Hz?

Also how good is the Daytona 240w plate amp?
 

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So what you mean to say is that all subs can produce the desired o/p (~18Hz) but will vary the amount of o/p (db at the particular freq.).
Yes.

So for a home setup how much db is required for a very good bass extension?
For a top floor apartment either the HO or HF would be more then enough. With room gain there would be 110 - 112 db at 20 hz. That 's enough to make neighbors complain.

Also how good is the Dayton 240w plate amp?
It's an excellent amp and very popular. Be aware there are two versions, one with boost and one without. You don't want the one with the boost.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Sorry Mike, I thought the shortcuts like o/p, i/p, h/w, s/w, w/, w/o etc are common everywhere. I will try to avoid.

So, HF/HO as well as MKIII are very good in reproducing the ~18Hz frequencies. Then, the next thing I am worried about is the XMax issue (@ 300w - 500w continuous), Is 14mm (HF/HO) enough to produce the desired db @ ~18Hz (without the fear of bottoming out) for shaking the walls / chest hitting bass (not boom bass), (sorry neighbors:)) ... Because shipping to US and getting it repaired will be an expensive as a new one.

If you dont mind, could you please tell me your opinion about these commercial subwoofers which i was planning to buy BEFORE deciding the DIY path.. (This is just to make sure that I am going in the right path by deciding the DIY way.. also I can get an idea about the DIY sub performance, since i had auditioned them... so please dont misunderstand)

- POLK AUDIO DSW PRO 600 with 12" subwoofers
(http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/dsw/index.php?s=dswpro600)
- Velodyne Impact 12
(http://www.velodyne.com/products/product.aspx?ID=36)

Does our HF/HO (for comparison, we can take 12" HF/HO) are far miles ahead or marginal than these in performance and SQ? If so, with which one (commercial) can we compare these to?
 

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Then, the next thing I am worried about is the XMax issue (@ 300w - 500w continuous)
Any modeling I show is always with the sub within Xmax with the stated box size, tuning frequency, input power and hi pass filter.

Is 14mm (HF/HO) enough to produce the desired db @ ~18Hz (without the fear of bottoming out) for shaking the walls / chest hitting bass

For a 16' x 12' room, yes. Obviously the Titanic with it's higher Xmax and a 500 watt amp would produce more output, as shown in the SPL graphs.

could you please tell me your opinion about these commercial subwoofers
I looked up the specs on the Velodyne, it's no where near the performance of any of the modeling shown above.

Does our HF/HO (for comparison, we can take 12" HF/HO) are far miles ahead or marginal than these in performance and SQ?
I have not modeled the 12" HF/HO, only the 15".
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I agree Mike and thanks.

Is there any option to avoid Hipass filter (with Tapco Juice 800 amp), its almost half the price of the sub on importing. Since I am a novice in electronics, I dont know how to make it :( also. Any alternatives?

Any modeling I show is always with the sub within Xmax with the stated box size, tuning frequency, input power and hi pass filter.




For a 16' x 12' room, yes. Obviously the Titanic with it's higher Xmax and a 500 watt amp would produce more output, as shown in the SPL graphs.



I looked up the specs on the Velodyne, it's no where near the performance of any of the modeling shown above.



I have not modeled the 12" HF/HO, only the 15".
 

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I have read that the titanic is a little one note sounding. I also agree with ricci about the 15"hf. With a larger enclosure they should be great sounding drivers. With a pair it should be close to all you need (for now, headroom addiction sucks ).

The lab12 driver would be very good in a tapped horn, but for a first build that would be very difficult. Advantages of the tapped horn are very clean response and very very high output. You just have to have a good well planned design and more space. A single lab12 in a correct enclosure could yield 120+ db in your room with the wattage you already have. In fact a room your size you may be able to get 130 db out of one at certain frequencies.
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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Some of my friends suggested for 12" sub instead of 15" for a room size of 16x12ft. Does a 15" be an overkill? Comparing the SQ and the performance of 12" and 15", is there a significant difference?

Probably i will go with the Dayton SA240 amp without boost, not sure about how much SQ/performance i am going to miss compared to a professional amp, because of the complication of the hipass filter @18Hz:(

In almost all the DIY galleries, people are placing their subs at the entertainment wall. Does the placement makes a difference (because of the huge size). I have attached my apartment plan along with the sample plan for the sub.
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
I am still in confusion about the best amp for this sub. If I am selecting the ProAmp, it can output 300w along with another channel for powering a center channel or another sub in future. When I tried plotting 240w and 300w in WinISD, I couldnt find any difference, is it so? Also bridging the amp will output 800w, will this damage the sub (hipass filter at 18Hz)?

If I am going for SA240, whether it can give the chest hitting kinda bass with out any sign of power hungry sub, i mean, will it require more headroom (300w or 500w) to produce the sound @ ~18Hz authoritatively? I dont want to change the amp as a future upgrade, so i wanted to get the max possible, Will 240w amp is enough?

I am planning to order by today or tomorrow, so looking for the reply as early as possible.
 
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