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HLR6167WAX/XAA Digital board problems

181711 Views 292 Replies 42 Participants Last post by  lcaillo, 
lcaillo
This set started having problems with tiling when cold, going green with patterns of lines, and other patterns of distorted images. It would clear up when run for a couple of hours. At the time, the digital board was on backorder, and in order to get the client up and running, I pulled the digital board from my personal set and installed it. This worked, assuring me that the digital board was the problem. I transferred the bad board to my set, and it had the same issues. After using it a while longer, it began having other symptoms, including locking up with no pix and turning off. Eventually, the set would start the lamp, never have any video nor any sound, then shut down after about a minute. It remained that way for a couple of months while I waited on a board.

Along the way, I have heard from a couple of sites, including Jason1976 here, that the problem may be connections on the DNIE chip on the digital board, near the DVI connector at the back side of the board. Apparently people were having success applying pressure to this chip. It is a BGA type (Ball Grid Array) that has pins underneath that contact points on the board. This is becoming common with high density ICs where external pin connections require larger size chips, tighter spacing, and geometries that are not efficient for the design of the chip. There are good reasons to use BGA, but they can be difficult to solder properly. Apparently, Samsung has had some issues with this chip.

One solution is to try to re-flow the slder. I don't suggest this for anyone without the right equipment. It is very easy to heat the wrong parts or overheat the chip, board, or related parts.

So I decided to experiment. I received the new board that had been on backorder, but figured I would play with the bad one as an experiment. The board is encased in a metal housing with holes. I looked in my shop for something that might fit between the chip and housing to put some pressure on the chip. I found a small bolt that happened to be just a litte too long to fit between the chip and the metal housing above it. I fitted it in, then pushed the edges of the housing down to where I could put the screws holding it all together back in. There was significant tension on the bolt, with the larger hex head end standing on the chip and the tip of the screw fitting against the metal housing (bolt standing on its head on top of the chip). It took a little pressure to get the screws back in, which was good, as it used the housing like a large spring pushing down on the bolt, which put a great deal of pressure on the chip. Simple solution if this is the problem.

The result is that the set fired up the first time and has run fine since. I don't know how long it will work, but I will run it and see. I have the other board, if anyone needs one. Keeping it will cost me an extra $50 on top of its cost, as it does have a core value and we normally send them back for credit. It will be worth it to have a new board on hand if my solution fails, or if another client needs one.

The part number for the digital board for this set is BP94-02084A. This is for the HLR6167WAX/XAA, L64C chassis type. You need to verify all of the suffixes on the service model and the chassis number to get the right board for Samsung sets, particularly these. There were many production changes and versions of these sets and some differences in the boards. Some even reportedly need to have the analog and digital boards changed together for some reason, but this one does not.
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lcaillo
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I pulled the board back out to test the new one that I just got from Samsung. Turns out that the new board was NOT set up even close. It was set in the service menu for a Zeiss engine rather than a Samsung and this flips the horizontal image so the menus were backwards. All of the settings were off, but luckily there is an option to copy the data from the light engine back to the digital board. Still, this is a good example of why I discourage people swapping boards. There can be lots of issues, and unless you know your way around the service modes, have the documentation, have access to tech support at the manufacturer, or are just lucky, you can easily get in over your head. Especially with Samsung.

Not being the type to stay content with a simple fix, and not liking the idea of a bolt just held in place by pressure, I decided to mod the mod a bit. A few nuts, washers, and a long bolt from a toggle, cut to fit, and I have a very secure way of applying pressure more evenly to the chip. And I can adjust the tension so that it is easier to get the screws in the housing.

Here are some pix of the mod.

The gator has nothing to do with this of course, but I had to throw it in. My son, Evan, took that one while we were fishing on the Suwanee River last week.

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lcaillo
Thanks, Tito. I am sure others will find the detail helpful.
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lcaillo
These are concerns. Too much pressure could easily make things worse, and the chip IS supposed to be soldered in, so there is no telling how long the fix will last. I used just enough pressure to not allow the washer to slip. There is some flex in the metal housing, so it could be giving way a bit also.

Personally, I have no confidence that the new boards will not have the same problem eventually.
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lcaillo
Start with just a little pressure and increase until it works. That is the nice thing about using a bolt and nuts. You can control the amount of tension.
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lcaillo
I am not convinced that this is a reliable and long term fix. I would not suggest selling anything of the sort, as the results cannot be assured. This is just a bandaid on a chronic problem.
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lcaillo
Note that there has been mixed success with the procedure. This is likely because there are other reasons for problems other than the connections on the DNIE chip, and that it is possible that pressure on the chip could open other connections as well as fix the ones that we have had success with. Also, the amount of pressure needed may vary. Some may need little, some may need more, and some may not be repairable at all with this method. At best it is a patch and not a true solution to the underlying problem.
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lcaillo
Have you checked samsungparts.com? Last I checked they had it in stock for the same price as encompass.
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lcaillo
The core charge is usually included in the price, then you get credit when it is returned.

As I said before, I do not have confidence that the new boards will be any better than the originals, but maybe they figured it out. We just don't know. Be aware when you make an investment in parts that color wheels and light tunnels, along with DMD board problems, are very very common in these sets.

When you install the new board, go into the service menu and select DMD-Digital to copy data from the light engine to the chassis. This will minimize settings, but will not substitute for a full calibration. There are also numerous settings which are not well documented regarding their effect and scope. You likely already know more than the service center, however, and the service documentation is rather thin with regard to the service menu settings.
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lcaillo
Generally, the Samsung DLP sets have been rather service intensive. The LCD sets may be better but I still don't trust Samsung as much as the Japanese manufacturers.

DMD is digital micromirror device and is the DLP chip itself. The DMD board is the board on the back of the light engine that controls the DMD.

Whether a set is more or less likely to last is a hard thing to predict. What I can tell you is that I service all brands for several dealers, and I fix a lot of Samsung. I have a dealer who sells mostly Mitsubishi and Sony and they don't have enough work to keep me busy on that stuff. The first gen Mits DLPs had batches of bad capacitors that caused lots of problems, but none of their sets have ever had many failures in light tunnels, color wheels, DMD boards, nor lamps. Samsung sets will put lots of tech's kids through college.
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lcaillo
Please start another thread to discuss the decision making regarding purchasing a ne w set. This is really off topic here. Keep some perspective, however. My comments on Samsung are relative to the Japanese makers. At least they have serious service and parts support, which a company like Vizio does not. Calling them US-based is sort of like advertising "LED" tvs. Vizio is basically a name that gets put on the front of products that are made in china or wherever the cheapest production is this month. I would not rule out a Samsung set, but I would shop for an extended warranty if you don't have the ability to consider what you buy disposable.
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lcaillo
Like I said, you have to keep perspective, and we are talking about different technologies. There does seem to be a clear trend in Samsung to buy market share by building things as cheap as they can while getting high performance. We just see lots of varied problems in many of their products, while the better manufacturers seem to have less random failures. All have dogs every now and then, but the better ones seem to have occassional patterns of failures due to supplier problems.

Keep in mind that many of the LCD vendors are sharing manufacturing or outsourcing panels, if not entire sets. It is hard to generalize reliability when suppliers change year to year, or even monthly. What you can generalize is the service support and consumer relations response to problems. In this regard, the Japanese products still stand above the rest.

This needs to end this discussion here. This is a very important area that needs its own thread and is off-topic here.
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lcaillo
You may also need to change the engine setting, flip the image, then try transferring the data.
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lcaillo
Mine stopped working, too. Actually, it went back to the green, distorted image that was one of the symptoms. I think the best way to consider the pressure mod is as a troubleshooting technique to isolate the problem to the digital board. As I suspected, it is simply not a long term fix.
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lcaillo
Jason, please do not throw numbers like that around. It is pure speculation and things get taken as fact on the internet when they are really just casual comments.

There are a lot more people who research service problems themselves these days, even if they do not try to fix them themselves. Easily a third of my clients have done some form of research before calling for service. It is impossible to put numbers on these matters, however. Many of the hits are Everyone who ever bought a SLP RPTV will have a lamp to replace and many will research the problem before deciding to buy a lamp. I have seen many times that when a pattern of problems becomes apparent, people jump to lots of unfounded conclusions.
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lcaillo
There is obviously a common failure mode here. The point is that we really don't know the numbers and speculation does no one any good. Let's try to stick to the facts and not add to hysteria.
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lcaillo
The nature of many of these problems seems to be bad connections on the BGA type DNIE chip. Adding pressure may help, or too much could maybe make it worse, it is hard to know. Verify your work and make sure that you got everything back where it belongs and did not damage nor leave any connections unfinished. There are some connectors that can be placed in the wrong location.
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lcaillo
According to the manual it needs a lamp, IIRC. Have you checked the meaning of this state in your manual?
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lcaillo
Probably the digital board.
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lcaillo
I agree. Spend a few $ and get a new board. Ebay parts are a gamble to start with.
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