[Ryan Anderson]

What tuning do most people usually aim for for music only enclosures? No specific style of music.

 

[evilskillit]

It varies greatly by personal taste and sheer randomness of people but a lot of music subs are sealed with a QTC of around 7 for moderately deep response, low group delay and a shallow roll off.

Something like that would be fine for most music, if you really want to rock out to some techno or rap or want really loud low bass a ported low tuned build may be preferable.

 

[fredk]

A lot of music dosn't have content below 40Hz. The low e on an electric bass is around 41Hz. Classical instruments can reach into the upper 20s and the pipe organ and synthesizer can reach into the mid teens.

My current sub is flat in room to about 21Hz and it does well even on pipe organ music. Pick a tuning based on what you listen to.

 

[Ryan Anderson]

It varies greatly by personal taste and sheer randomness of people but a lot of music subs are sealed with a QTC of around 7 for moderately deep response, low group delay and a shallow roll off.

Something like that would be fine for most music, if you really want to rock out to some techno or rap or want really loud low bass a ported low tuned build may be preferable.

say my tatse is as deep as possible. I am adamant that I do NOT do sealed. If I built an LLT, I am under the impression that if I tuned super low, the sub will always be at least as good as sealed up above port help.... so why not at least go LLT, if not tuning to the lowest expected music frequency.

A lot of music dosn't have content below 40Hz. The low e on an electric bass is around 41Hz. Classical instruments can reach into the upper 20s and the pipe organ and synthesizer can reach into the mid teens.

My current sub is flat in room to about 21Hz and it does well even on pipe organ music. Pick a tuning based on what you listen to.

now we're talking numbers. so are you saying tune to 40Hz and use a SSF at 35Hz? Or are you saying tune to the upper 20's so I can get the most out of the lowest of classical instruments? You know full well if I tune to 40Hz I'm not getting even the 2nd harmonic of "Bottom C"... so can I still tune to 8Hz for music only and have the ULTIMATE music only subwoofer that can still reach all the way down to Bottom C, but way up in the high 20's for classical it would be just like a sealed sub, and way up in the 40's that low e bass guitar is just like sealed?

 

[evilskillit]

I'm not being a jerk in saying this I'm simply asking. If you already have an idea and a prefernce why did you ask for advice and say that you had no specific style? Heh.

Given the nature of distortion and speakers trying to play different ranges I would probably have 2 sub setups, one that plays from around 35hz up to 80 using something with a low FS and moderate stroke in a sealed or PR box like a peerless sub or dayton reference series sub, then have something else like an LLT or IB for frequences from 30hz down. 90% of your music will be taken care of by the smaller sub, and in the range that your ears are more discerning in the sub with less stroke should be more linear and have less distortion, at leas tin theory. Then for the really house rocking, gut wrenching low tactile frequencies just go nuts with your subs, or get some bass shakers and call it a day . But if you are going to just have one sub for music I would focus on the subs that are known for being more linear and having lower distortion honestly

 

[Ryan Anderson]

let's say I have 2 Mael-X's. If I put 1 in a huge LLT for the lows and the other in a small/medium high tuned and was able to get them seamless and flat...

wouldn't I actually be just as well with 2 of them in 2 huge LLTs? 2 of the same drivers tuned low will still have just as much if not more output up high as just 1 tuned up high?

 

[evilskillit]

I believe you are correct in stating that a large low tuned enclosure basically acts like a large sealed box above its tuning frequency in respect to response and distortion, so really building 2 large ported enclosures would probably be just as good. In this particular scenario the only reason to build a smaller enclosure for one would either be, if you wanted one in a smaller enclosure for space reasons, or if you wanted to tune the other enclosure higher for increased spl in a higher frequency range but with those subs that would probably just be overkill in the upper bass region.

 

[fredk]

Ryan. The numbers are there to say 'pick your poison'. If you listen to nothing but pop/rock, why bother with a driver like a MalX? Go with a smaller driver that does very well down to 40Hz or so. It would save money and space.

I suspect evilskillit is right. If you can afford two MalX's and the space, make two big ported subs.

It also depends on how large your room is and how loud you listen.

If you were to go with two subs, with one to cover the mid bass, I would consider one of the AE drivers for the task. The seem to deliver more in the upper bass range.

Take what I write with a gain of salt as I have only modeled these drivers. If things around my place stop breaking I may actually get a chance to build a sub. :spend:

 

[Ryan Anderson]

In this particular scenario the only reason to build a smaller enclosure for one would either be, if you wanted one in a smaller enclosure for space reasons, or if you wanted to tune the other enclosure higher for increased spl in a higher frequency range but with those subs that would probably just be overkill in the upper bass region.

assuming space is not a factor

I guess let me rephrase the question:

Can I get some links of some music only builds, but only with resonant/wavelength enclosures? (not sealed or IB)

 

[Mike P.]

Most sub builds here are for HT, I use my HT subs for music as well and love the sound of them. I have a pair of IXL-18's in 12 cu. ft. tuned to 16 hz and a pair of Atlas 15's in 10 cu. ft. tuned to 18 hz. I listen mostly to pop/rock and find the bass rich and effortless. It's just my personal preference.

 

[Ryan Anderson]

Most sub builds here are for HT, I use my HT subs for music as well and love the sound of them. I have a pair of IXL-18's in 12 cu. ft. tuned to 16 hz and a pair of Atlas 15's in 10 cu. ft. tuned to 18 hz. I listen mostly to pop/rock and find the bass rich and effortless. It's just my personal preference.

this is what I am looking to hear. I would like to someday do an SLLT and maybe tune to 10Hz, but, if I want really loud and strong 40Hz-80Hz as well, how many drivers will I need to match a smaller 40Hz tune alignment?

Say if I had 2 21" MX's in 14 cubes tuned to 35Hz.... if I had 4 21's in 40 cubes tuned to 10Hz, will I have just as much 40Hz on up? I'll plot this later to see for myself, but I'm also looking for opinions, experience, and build logs if there are any.

So pretty much all build logs here are HT... nothing for just music... yet everyone is satisfied with their music output as well? I am hoping this is the case.

Thank you Mike

 

[Mike P.]

So pretty much all build logs here are HT... nothing for just music... yet everyone is satisfied with their music output as well?

Let's find out.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/diy-subwoofers/22062-ht-subs-music.html#post198074

 

[evilskillit]

Well I've only built 1 pair of subs and they were for music but also they were made from cheap junk I had laying around. I wish I had built a lot of different types of subs and could vouch for their musicality. Unfortunately I am not made of money, most of us aren't but if I had $500 to spend on a pair of subs right now I would probably build 2 12s using nice but affordable subs like the Dayton Reference 12 that are known more for their linearity and low distortion. I would power them separately with something that I could adjust frequency and parametric EQ like my computer and put them in separate sealed or vented enclosures so I could find optimal room locations. After all, even tho I listen to a LOT of different types of music very little of it has any material below 30hz.

If I had $1000 to spend on subs I'd try an IB using like 6 Exodus Audio DPL-15s or something, because I want to see what all the fuss is about when it comes to IB, its supposed to be awesome.

And this is all for music, if I wanted something to perform some HT duty I'd just build the biggest baddes LLT that my budget would accomodate.

FWIW this is pair of 12s I used for my music subs because I had them laying around.
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=8607
Junk, but I put them in a 4 cu ft enclosure tuned to around 24hz, stuffed them a bit and put some eq on them eqing down the peak around 58hz and pumping up the output around the tuning frequency produced a pair of subs that sounds pretty good with music and plays flat-ish to around 25hz, tho I don't have any measurements yet, but I might by next year.

 

[Ryan Anderson]

Let's find out.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/diy-subwoofers/22062-ht-subs-music.html#post198074

you made my night! Thank you Mike!

If I had $1000 to spend on subs I'd try an IB using like 6 Exodus Audio DPL-15s or something, because I want to see what all the fuss is about when it comes to IB, its supposed to be awesome.

And this is all for music, if I wanted something to perform some HT duty I'd just build the biggest baddes LLT that my budget would accomodate.

thanks for your input... I think the whole idea to tuning higher for music is to get a bigger hump in the 30's, but I am willing to sacrifice it to reach deeper when it is there. I just over build using more cone area so I can still get massive 30's, but when it drops below that, it just gets even better

 

[breathing_mamal]

you may pick sealed enclosure for music.
and high volume box

 

[breathing_mamal]

you may also use two subwoofers!

 

[evilskillit]

Boxes only affect frequency response near their tuning frequency. Much higher than that shouldn't really be effected. Unless you were to tune the boxes very high, eg 40-60hz. You would however with most subs here, end up with a huge hump in frequency response if you tuned to that frequency which would make them sound like one note boxes, which is not good for music.

The other thing to consider with ported and PR designs is that as they near tuning and go below their tuning frequency their group delay goes up exponentially which means less "accurate" bass. They'll be loud and hit hard but may lack "definition" or "attack" as some people say.

Most large cone subs people use here will play pretty rediculously loud in the 45-80hz range anyways so tuning the box for those frequencies is kind of insane unless you need to fill a huge building. I would go with as large and low tuned vented cabinet or sealed cabinet as you can get for the smoothest and fullest sound.

The other reason to tune higher is some subs simply don't play as low. Model some car subs or some pro audio subs. If you only need really strong bass down to 30hz or so, one of these subs may suit you better as well as they are designed for greater efficiency and more output in the musical range at the sacrafice of some excursion and bottom octave extension.

 

[Ryan Anderson]

just trying to get someone to stop doing LLT's for music applications... but it sounds like I should keep doing LLT, even if it is only for music

 

[evilskillit]

Actually yeah. When I first learned about the LLT I assumed it was a bloated flappy ht sub that would not be good for music. But the more I've read and learned it seems that unless you just don't need low end extension or can't afford a large box there is no reason not to use a LLT, (or EBS alignment as it is usually called in smaller speakers) for woofers because above the tuning frequency they act just like sealed drivers in terms of response and excursion, they just play much lower than the alternative. Near and at tuning there is some group delay and port noise but those are frequencies that you simply otherwise would not have had, so it is probably a compromise worth making. So there really doesn't seem to be any reason not to build one of these, unless you just want something different for the sake of different, or can't get a fridge sized box past the wife.

 

[Ryan Anderson]

Actually yeah. When I first learned about the LLT I assumed it was a bloated flappy ht sub that would not be good for music. But the more I've read and learned it seems that unless you just don't need low end extension or can't afford a large box there is no reason not to use a LLT, (or EBS alignment as it is usually called in smaller speakers) for woofers because above the tuning frequency they act just like sealed drivers in terms of response and excursion, they just play much lower than the alternative. Near and at tuning there is some group delay and port noise but those are frequencies that you simply otherwise would not have had, so it is probably a compromise worth making. So there really doesn't seem to be any reason not to build one of these, unless you just want something different for the sake of different, or can't get a fridge sized box past the wife.

I like the way you put it... that has been my argument for years on tuning low in-car