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You should be smitten with the krell as it is a fine amp. If you decide otherwise and want to dump it let me know. :)
So far so good... My uncle always tells me "it'll sound great until you put something better in there... so don't put nothing better in there and you'll be just as happy as can be"

well... all this review has done is got me wanting to try something else for sake of trying.
 

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So far so good... My uncle always tells me "it'll sound great until you put something better in there... so don't put nothing better in there and you'll be just as happy as can be"

well... all this review has done is got me wanting to try something else for sake of trying.
If that makes you happy, go for it... My philosophy is "If it ain't broke don't fix it". :T
 

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So far so good... My uncle always tells me "it'll sound great until you put something better in there... so don't put nothing better in there and you'll be just as happy as can be"

well... all this review has done is got me wanting to try something else for sake of trying.

Talley - I would just keep what you have, it'll do as well or better than anything else you might find.
 

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Certainly don't trust our ears... this is merely information for your reading pleasure and should not be relied upon to make a decision on what to keep in your system and/or what to purchase. Let your own ears be the judge. One thing I have learned is I can't trust other people's ears to determine what I prefer.
My 2 cents... well, the problem for me was/is I just don't have convenient opportunities to let my ears be the judge. After Wayne's review of the ESLs, I wanted to find a pair to listen too. Living in the middle of nowhere, the nearest shop was 2 hours away and I just couldnt work it in, so I defaulted to web reviews. It doesn't take long to seperate the wheat from the chaff. I did the same thing for my PSA sub. Living under a rock in the middle of nowhere, I'd never even heard of PSA before I joined this site a couple months ago. And, I can say without reservation today I'm absolutley estatic with the ESLs & PSA sub. If the ship with the Chane A5s e-v-e-r docks on the west coast, I expect to be just as wow'd.

So, I think you guys are being a little hard on yourselves. You've proven to be unbiased, knowlegable and upfront, therefore trustworthy in my book. I see no reason to not allow you to influence my investment decisions. Afterall, I do have the ability to return the ESLs and PSA but I haven't. And, I bet I probably won't return the Chane's either.

This hobby is all about compromises, right? and we each have to decide what and which ones to make. But the bottomline is you guys do great things for your members, it's quite a service, especially for the uninformed such as myself.

...funny thing happened last night...wife walked by and saw me reading this thread...she said "you have 3 amps, you do not need another one." I couldnt argue with her...that is until you publish the results of the evaluation giving me some ammunition to atleast try.

(I don't want to hear the band "Chicago" for a long time)
someobody owes me a cup of coffee and a new keyboard...
 

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Set of three FPB-250mc monoblocks for the front three would be better :)
Why?
Unless you listen at hearing loss inducing levels you are no where near the limits of your electronics.
If there's something lacking look at the speakers and the listening environment.
 

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Why?
Unless you listen at hearing loss inducing levels you are no where near the limits of your electronics.
If there's something lacking look at the speakers and the listening environment.
why not :sneeky:

lol... you guys I'm playing. I just bought my Krell in december and just got it hooked up in January with small NHT and just got the SVS ultra speakers from Sonnie about what... three weeks ago.

I'm a pig in mud right now! Enjoying the out of my system when I can. Right now been busting butt painting the entire inside of my home and wifey said theater room last (although I did sneak in the ceiling!)

So... I have the theater walls scheduled to paint the weekend of April 4th however I still don't want to paint the walls until my screen comes in since right now I'm just throwing up on a painted wall.

THEN I can address the room acoustics just as you mentioned. I already have enough absorption panels to make than I probably need so I'll have extra for my buddies place and then need to concentrate on the diffusion.
 

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So far so good... My uncle always tells me "it'll sound great until you put something better in there... so don't put nothing better in there and you'll be just as happy as can be"

well... all this review has done is got me wanting to try something else for sake of trying.
Krell is a very good amplifier, how can you go from Krell super fan to being ready to dump it based on an amplifier listening party that hasn't even had the results report written yet ? <snip> You were completely satisfied with the Krell, this event should not change that for you.
You should be smitten with the krell as it is a fine amp. If you decide otherwise and want to dump it let me know. :)
Talley - I would just keep what you have, it'll do as well or better than anything else you might find.
...funny thing happened last night...wife walked by and saw me reading this thread...she said "you have 3 amps, you do not need another one." I couldnt argue with her...that is until you publish the results of the evaluation giving me some ammunition to atleast try.
I used the following quote in another post earlier today, and realized it describes upgraditis to a tee:
"After a time, you may find that 'having' is not so pleasing a thing, after all, as 'wanting.' It is not logical, but it is often true."-- Mr. Spock.

Yeah? Well :neener: to that. I want ALL the review amps, and yours, too! Just kidding. :D
 

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Discussion Starter #151
well... all this review has done is got me wanting to try something else for sake of trying.
The only question that really matters is if it pleases you. If your amplifier sound as it is now please as you, you are done. If it pleases you more to experiment and try other amps then go ahead and try them. This is all for fun anyway. If it pleases you and there is no downside, go ahead and do it.

Very true IMO. We are doing it for fun. We don't have any agenda beyond discovery and enjoying the journey. We don't want anyone to put more stock in our experience than their own. The value in what we do for others is getting aa glimpse of equipment that they might otherwise not, but it is through our eyes and ears.
Like Leonard says, it was for fun... and for science. For me (us), science is fun.

My dad was a scientist and a researcher, and we talked about science all the time. It was plain to see that he really enjoyed his work and really enjoyed thinking about science and learning new things. He was also an experimenter and an innovator. I definitely got infected with the fun science bug, probably largely from him. All of the evaluators on this panel have the same bug, or we would not have done what we did.

Edit:

At the same time, I was bitten equally hard by the artsy, right brain, subjective bug.

To some, those two sides are in opposition, almost enemies in conflict. To others, they are friends working together with just a little creative tension here and there. I consider myself lucky to be in the latter group, do not ask me how I got there but I like it. It makes this kind of work / play tremendously satisfying. To figure out something using some science, and then sit down and have it enhance the joy of the listening experience is a real trip.
 

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I used the following quote in another post earlier today, and realized it describes upgraditis to a tee:
"After a time, you may find that 'having' is not so pleasing a thing, after all, as 'wanting.' It is not logical, but it is often true."-- Mr. Spock.
Yeah? Well :neener: to that. I want ALL the review amps, and yours, too! Just kidding. :D
Oh boy this hits too close to home.
I don't get upgraditis and switch out stuff real often but I jump from one thing to the next.
When I became facinated with replacing my 70's era stereo gear I went all in researching what I wanted (er I mean needed), probably took close to a year before I figured out what I wanted...got it, set it up, we are happy....then I jumped into researching new trucks and probably hemmed and hawed for two years before biting the bullet and buying it...I am happy....then I start researching BBQ pits and even spent three days vacationing in Houston visiting the pit builders down there (we did some other stuff too) decided to skip the real steel and bought a WSM....I am happy...
As soon as I get one thing I jump straight to the next thing....my wife teases me sometimes when I tell her I am thinking about getting something by asking how long I have been looking at it and then telling me you have wait xxx months more before you can buy it. Her theory on bigger ticket items is if I still want it after a year I probably actually do want it.
 

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This evaluation took place almost two weeks ago, so I was curious as to when you guys were planning on publishing the results.
I am waiting to release more on April 1 to keep everyone off balance, guessing whether the results are ficticious or not...

Seriously, no, we won't be publishing any April fool's day nonsense reviews. I would not want to be doing reviews at Sonnies on that date, however, being the jokester that he is.

What I am attempting to do is tease out of a lot of statistically insignificant data any meaningful comparisons and observations. Now that likely drives any researchers who rely strictly on "objective" statistical inference quite crazy, but it is the reality of our hobby. We have a combination of lots of objective data and subjective assessments. Looking at all of the sweep and impulse response data, and trying to correlate it to the observations of 4 listenters across more than a dozen comparisons, under two kinds of conditions, for 11 amplifiers, well, it would make for a multivariate nighmare if the data was just numerical. But this is much worse...

Combine all that with trying to wordsmith it all to make sure that people are least likely to take it out of context and be unfair to any particular product, and I have tossed a number of ideas that I had.

I am working on it all, and will be giving a summary of what we can say fairly about each of the amps. Just framing the question as "are there differences" is really not very useful, but I think everyone doing the listening would agree that they were all much more similar than different, and as we have all said, under the right power and listening constraints, they all do a great job and not one would be products that we would rush to sell if we owned it, nor would we hesitate to want to listen to any of them.

Wayne said in preface to his review, and I could not say it better, "The most important decisions about making a product or technology comparison are determining just what you are actually comparing and exactly how to make a fair apples-to-apples comparison. It is not always as easy as you might think it should be. I am convinced that most casual comparisons made between products are fraught with unaccounted-for variables, and are therefore flawed."
 

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I am working on it all, and will be giving a summary of what we can say fairly about each of the amps. Just framing the question as "are there differences" is really not very useful, but I think everyone doing the listening would agree that they were all much more similar than different, and as we have all said, under the right power and listening constraints, they all do a great job and not one would be products that we would rush to sell if we owned it, nor would we hesitate to want to listen to any of them.

Wayne said in preface to his review, and I could not say it better, "The most important decisions about making a product or technology comparison are determining just what you are actually comparing and exactly how to make a fair apples-to-apples comparison. It is not always as easy as you might think it should be. I am convinced that most casual comparisons made between products are fraught with unaccounted-for variables, and are therefore flawed."

Your way of waiting until everything is done and properly dusted is a good way. Please do not feel rushed as the more information you can put forth in an easy to understand format, hopefully the fewer questions will have to be answered in the future......ahh naw, I am mistaken there, no matter what is said there will be questions from all sides. Cant make everything right nor everyone happy.
Wayne is correct I agree, and while it is not always easy, time and familiarity with any given quality of similar products will bring forth a true idea of what you are hearing and maybe even why. I am firmly against blind testing, at least the short term kind as I dont feel there is much to learn, the devil is in the details as they say. If we all bought homes based upon the first walk through we would be in trouble more often than not. It takes time...and even then, living in the home for a year will bring so much more to the forefront. I hope none of us buys a car based upon the initial test before signing on the dotted line and one cannot truly know the worth of a car without going through the paces a bit, sometimes even going so far as renting one for awhile before purchase. You can hide the amp on test and remove its identification but with time will come a good idea of what it can do.

If we walk into a test of unfamiliar amps and run them around the bases without learning what they do, I am just kind of leery as to whether or not we get a full feel of them. Not just amps, but speakers, pre amps, AVRs, wires and what have you. There must be a baseline that one knows well for deeper results to become apparent :eek:lddude:
 

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Meh, pretty sure if you brought a brand new fresh out of the box amplifier into a well established system and listening environment and did a blind A/B listening test against the very well known amplifier less than 1% of the system owners would be able to discern a difference.
Test could be repeated over and over for months and get the same random results.
If any particular individual falls into that super hearing group that ability must never be divulged to their wife because it would wipe out his ability to not hear her sometimes (if it's a woman her hubby can be told because wives hear everything even when we wish they couldn't) .
 

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Discussion Starter #159
I will soon have quiet fans installed in my Crown power amp and, along with the Oppo HA-1 acting as DAC + volume control, will be able to perform long-term listening comparisons between it and my Onkyo TX-SR705 receiver driving my MartinLogan ESL speakers. Both will receive optical input from my music server.

Which intention should I prime my mind with as I begin that exercise?
  1. "They are different amplifiers, so they must sound different, so I will find a way to hear that difference."
  2. "All amplifiers sound the same so I will not hear a difference."
  3. "If there is a difference, I will hear it, if there is none, I will not."
  4. "I do not really care. If there is enough of a difference to matter to me, my brain will find a way to let me know."
  5. "Priming my brain with an intention beforehand is a silly notion, just enjoy the music and see what happens."
  6. "All that matters is that I will end up with a preference at some point, so that must be the better amp for me."
 

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I will soon have quiet fans installed in my Crown power amp and, along with the Oppo HA-1 acting as DAC + volume control, will be able to perform long-term listening comparisons between it and my Onkyo TX-SR705 receiver driving my MartinLogan ESL speakers. Both will receive optical input from my music server.

Which intention should I prime my mind with as I begin that exercise?
  1. "They are different amplifiers, so they must sound different, so I will find a way to hear that difference."
  2. "All amplifiers sound the same so I will not hear a difference."
  3. "If there is a difference, I will hear it, if there is none, I will not."
  4. "I do not really care. If there is enough of a difference to matter to me, my brain will find a way to let me know."
  5. "Priming my brain with an intention beforehand is a silly notion, just enjoy the music and see what happens."
  6. "All that matters is that I will end up with a preference at some point, so that must be the better amp for me."
I'm sure I don't have to tell you this, but for others not picking up on it, you're comparing DACs and preamp stages in addition to amplifiers here. [Edit: unless, for the Onkyo, you're going into line-level multichannel inputs from the Oppo. Even then, you have the Onkyo's preamp circuit.] There will be those who will say that these things should be as transparent as amplifiers should be, but those who believe that amps can make a difference likely will also believe that the DAC and preamp circuits will also.

That said, I would go with the last option if you have a lot of time to compare. I haven't done a lot of this type of comparing, but it seems to me that if you're looking too hard for differences you may start to make them up in your head :coocoo:
 
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