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Here's some pics.

Supplies all laid out:


Two quarts. One is the base for C&S one is the N6 paint Harp came up with.


The C&S base before mixing in the Craft Silver Metallic:


HTS-X2 mix in the can:


HTS-X2 again:


Ready to roll:


The next three shots are the screen (124" diagonal) after rolling three coats of HTS-X2 and a 28 hour cure.

All the lights on, camera flash on:


Partial lights on:


Lights off, just the flash:


I don't really see a difference between the three shots, I guess that's cos the flash fired off for all three. Should I try a shot with the lights all on and no flash? I am not much of a photographer beyond pressing the button on a decent point and shoot, but if there's any particular shots you want to see, let me know and I'll take them. Harp suggested taking a screen shot after calibrating the white balance to a white screen from a calibration disk. I'll try and grab that and any others you want to see tomorrow night after the paint has cured for a full 48 hours.
The screen looks great!!

I am in the process of doing the Scorpion mix and will be rolling my setup as well.

Can you provide any tips on rolling? I rolled my first coat of primer tonight and it see a lot of roller marks but I am thinking this is due to putting a white primer over a chocolate color wall paint. my hopes are the 2nd coat things even out a lot.
 

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Definitely a second coat of primer will help. I would probably do a third. I did three Kilz2 primer coats over new drywall that my builder had primed with a single coat of cheap primer.

I would also do three coats of your screen paint as well.

Aside from plenty of coats, technique does matter. I used the Tiddler basic rolling method

Its not rocket science, but the method does work well. The key things for me were:
1. Use a low nap roller (6mm aka 1/4")
2. Move the roller slowly with even pressure

Tiddler's method of starting in the middle and rolling up and down to the extreme top and bottom in a few passes seemed to be a good way to get even paint distribution, and not overlapping each coat but going back over the previous coat and finishing with a down-rolled stroke was also quite successful (see the video). I worked from left to right as it seemed more logical to me, but he goes right to left.

Your first coat of screen paint will also look like poo, no matter how many primer coats you do. The second coat looked good, but I did a third coat for good measure.

I also watered down my paint with ~2 fl oz of distilled water.

Good luck.
 

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Thanks for the info and video link!! My 2nd coat of primer looks so much better and I will be doing my 3rd coat this evening and it should just about perfect after that one!!
 

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So as I mentioned in another thread, I'm getting my 1st projector Mits HC3800 and am going to try the Elektra N8 mix maybe next weekend. I'll be painting it over Kilz2 on a piece of BOC. I have a DSLR Canon XTi and hope to show some of my results.

Since I'll be going through the painting process, I bought a little extra BOC to at least compare plain BOC with Elektra to convince myself afterwards it was worth it! If its helpful, I can paint an additional piece to send out to someone in the mail for them to do a proper comparison, or color analysis. The color bars comparison of different paint mixes in previous posts have helped me a lot.

Let me know if I can help in anyway. I think I owe it you guys...
 

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Discussion Starter #67
So as I mentioned in another thread, I'm getting my 1st projector Mits HC3800 and am going to try the Elektra N8 mix maybe next weekend. I'll be painting it over Kilz2 on a piece of BOC. I have a DSLR Canon XTi and hope to show some of my results.

Since I'll be going through the painting process, I bought a little extra BOC to at least compare plain BOC with Elektra to convince myself afterwards it was worth it! If its helpful, I can paint an additional piece to send out to someone in the mail for them to do a proper comparison, or color analysis. The color bars comparison of different paint mixes in previous posts have helped me a lot.

Let me know if I can help in anyway. I think I owe it you guys...
That would be great Pyro2! All I need to spectro is about a square inch, but a screen sample about the size of an index card helps to get a real feel for what the screen surface looks like. I'll PM you my address.

If you have any "hairs" sticking up off the BOC after the primer dries it would be a good idea to lightly sand them off before applying the Elektra™ mix.

I too prefer the "ugly" color bar and contrast bar photos of screens to show screen attributes. I know shots of movies or TV look at lot nicer, but they don't tell the same story. ;)

One thing I will warn you about is that it is impossible to compare a white screen (BOC) and a gray screen (Elektra™) side-by-side; they are too different in color. The BOC will always have the whiter whites and the gray screen will always have the blacker blacks. The way a gray screen works is that when you have a whole screen that color there is no brighter reference in the image so our brains tell us that the snow, white dress or white car you are seeing on the screen is really white when it fact it is gray. It's a form of optical illusion, but it works very well. If you actually have a white target (a sheet of white paper of small piece of BOC) on the screen then that will naturally be brighter than the gray screen and the gray will look duller (but it will have more contrast).
 

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One thing I will warn you about is that it is impossible to compare a white screen (BOC) and a gray screen (Elektra™) side-by-side; they are too different in color. The BOC will always have the whiter whites and the gray screen will always have the blacker blacks. The way a gray screen works is that when you have a whole screen that color there is no brighter reference in the image so our brains tell us that the snow, white dress or white car you are seeing on the screen is really white when it fact it is gray. It's a form of optical illusion, but it works very well. If you actually have a white target (a sheet of white paper of small piece of BOC) on the screen then that will naturally be brighter than the gray screen and the gray will look duller (but it will have more contrast).
Wouldn't you also require two different calibrations? One done for the white BOC and a different one done for the grey?

This is one of the things that has always confused me about the side-by-side shots that get posted. The PJ is calibrated (hopefully) for one of the screen surfaces being displayed, so naturally, all the others will not looks as good as they *could* were the PJ calibrated for them.

I'd rather see a shot of screen 1, displaying picture X, with the PJ calibrated for screen 1.
Then take a second picture of screen 2, displaying picture X, with the PJ calibrated for screen 2.

Change as few other variables as possible, then compare the results...
 

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Wouldn't you also require two different calibrations? One done for the white BOC and a different one done for the grey?

This is one of the things that has always confused me about the side-by-side shots that get posted. The PJ is calibrated (hopefully) for one of the screen surfaces being displayed, so naturally, all the others will not looks as good as they *could* were the PJ calibrated for them.

I'd rather see a shot of screen 1, displaying picture X, with the PJ calibrated for screen 1.
Then take a second picture of screen 2, displaying picture X, with the PJ calibrated for screen 2.

Change as few other variables as possible, then compare the results...
My general thought process has always been that re-adjusting black and white levels would suffice.
 

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Agree and understand the difference between comparing the two side by side, but I still wish to compare to convince myself that the exotic paints were worth the trouble as opposed to the plain BOC. Of course different ambient light conditions are part of that comparison. This will be my first PJ and screen so simply seeing another screen side by side in person may help put into perspective how much the screen can change the image. It will also help me understand the differences between white and gray screens.

I will easily send you a index card or larger chunk. After thinking about it, what I would REALLY like to see is a side by side comparison of this verse Black Widow. Will you agree this is a fair comparison that is meaningful? If someone has either a full BW screen or those vertical panels that are often compared, I would love to send a piece approx 24" x 54" for photo comparison. Only issue I forsee is having enough paint left over from the standard mixture amounts.

Harp, are you capable of doing gain measurements across the viewing cone or does that need to be sent elsewhere? How large of a sample is needed for that?
 

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Wouldn't you also require two different calibrations? One done for the white BOC and a different one done for the grey?

This is one of the things that has always confused me about the side-by-side shots that get posted. The PJ is calibrated (hopefully) for one of the screen surfaces being displayed, so naturally, all the others will not looks as good as they *could* were the PJ calibrated for them.

I'd rather see a shot of screen 1, displaying picture X, with the PJ calibrated for screen 1.
Then take a second picture of screen 2, displaying picture X, with the PJ calibrated for screen 2.

Change as few other variables as possible, then compare the results...
In theory you are correct, it all depends on how different the screens are in color neutrality as to how colors look. In the case of contrast and brightness, as Mech stated a simple adjustment of black and white levels should do the trick.

In my case I have PJ that was designed for presentations and not really home theater use (I would NOT recommend the Viewsonic PJ503D for HT use) and it's color adjustments are poor with only a hue and saturation control like is on cheap TV's from 20 years ago. I have a little more control over contrast and brightness, but not much. I found that I could not compensate for the contrast difference between C&S™ and BW™ with the PJ controls alone. I actually need a dark gray screen to get the image I like.

This is just a guess and an opinion, no testing has been done, but I would say that if two screens were within N1 of each other, and color neutral, you would not have to recalibrate between them except possibly to bring out the finest details in extreme white and black areas.

It also depends greatly on the image being viewed. I use scenes from the movie The Fifth Element for doing screen comparisons and in some scenes it is very easy to tell even a N.05 difference; in other scenes it is very hard to tell even a N1.5 difference (between C&S™ and BW™). This is another reason I like to use the color and contrast bar images in screen testing.
 

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I will easily send you a index card or larger chunk. After thinking about it, what I would REALLY like to see is a side by side comparison of this verse Black Widow. Will you agree this is a fair comparison that is meaningful?
Yes, I think you could make a fair comparison between Elektra™ N8 and Black Widow™ since there is only about N0.5 difference between them. I would expect Black Widow™ would still have the darkest blacks since it is the darker mix, but I'm not sure which would have the brightest whites. It would be an interesting test and one that will eventually be done.

If someone has either a full BW screen or those vertical panels that are often compared, I would love to send a piece approx 24" x 54" for photo comparison. Only issue I forsee is having enough paint left over from the standard mixture amounts.

Harp, are you capable of doing gain measurements across the viewing cone or does that need to be sent elsewhere? How large of a sample is needed for that?
I can't do gain tests yet (but I'm working on it) so Mech is your man for that. If he agrees to test the gain of your sample he could probably also do a SBS comparison of Elektra™ N8 and Black Widow™ if your sample is large enough. Mech will have to tell you the sample size.
 

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So, would you like colour and contrast bar images from my screen? Where do you get the specific ones you use? Are they on HCFR? Tell me which images you want to see and I'll do the white balance thingy with my camera and take a few pics...
It wouldn't hurt anything to have those as well, but the bar shots are mostly for comparing different screen samples side-by-side. The photos you already posted show the screen nicely in my opinion, especially with your comment about them being what you see with your naked eye (or very close).

The color bar image I use is off the Digital Video Essentials DVD and the contrast bar image is a jpeg file from Tiddler at AVS. I have HCFR, but I've never installed it so I don't know what images it contains.
 

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Sorry, I meant AVS HD 709, not HCFR. Getting my tools mixed up...
I did my PJ calibration using the AVS HD 709 disk. It comes with a pretty good set of calibration images. Have you ever played with it?
Nope, I'm still using all standard resolution stuff since I only have a 800x600 PJ.
 

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umr over at AVS (and I thought he offered over here too, but can't find it) is offering to test DIY samples. I'm planning to paint Elektra N8 this weekend. I would like to send a sample to umr as well as harpmaker and mechman as previously stated. Do you believe this mix is pretty much closed out in terms of development that you would advise to send it? If you forsee future changes, it may be confusing to keep track of.

I don't know if he'll even test it, but I'll extend my offer to him as I did here. Hopefully I have enough material and paint.
 

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umr over at AVS (and I thought he offered over here too, but can't find it) is offering to test DIY samples. I'm planning to paint Elektra N8 this weekend. I would like to send a sample to umr as well as harpmaker and mechman as previously stated. Do you believe this mix is pretty much closed out in terms of development that you would advise to send it? If you forsee future changes, it may be confusing to keep track of.

I don't know if he'll even test it, but I'll extend my offer to him as I did here. Hopefully I have enough material and paint.
I don't think umr made that offer at HTS, but feel free to send him any samples you like. Be advised that while I'm sure umr's readings are accurate, they are only valid for his HT and do not represent the peak gain figures that are the industry norm. This is why his reading of the High Power screen was so much lower than what Da-Lite says it is.

The only potential change in the Elektra™ mixes would be if we changed the N6 "shade adjuster" to a darker gray to get darker mixes, but that would equate to starting all over again so I don't think that will happen.

In the coming months we will gather data and photos of the entire range of N values that will comprise the Elektra™ mixes and when that is done we'll post an introduction thread in the regular DIY Screens forum similar to the ones for C&S™, Scorpion™ and BW™.
 

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Yeah if you want to send something out to me to take a look at that would be great. If you could send something the size of a sheet of paper that would be best. Not a big rush as my i1pro is going back to X-Rite tomorrow for it's yearly re-certification. I'm a couple months late on that this year.
 

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Sounds good. I'm hoping to paint a 24" x 54" piece of BOC and ship it to someone who would like to do photo side by side comparisons. If mech or anyone else who has a full BW screen interested in doing this let me know. Either way I'll ship a 11"x8" piece to you, Harp and umr. Should even be interesting to see how umr and your results compare.
 
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