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Discussion Starter #1
Hypothetical question...

I bought a Energy Connoisseur ESW-c10 Sub new for about 350 bucks. I have come to determine that it is not that great. Now, Is it possible that I could use the amp rated a 400 Dynamic 150 continuous and build a new box or stick in a new driver? The box is 17 X 13 x 14.8" it is rated at 32HZ to 140HZ....

I would like something that can get a little lower. I feel I am missing some of the low end.

What do you experts suggest ? If I sell this thing on ebay I will never get back what I paid.


Chris
 

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The first and most important issue is the driver. If the speaker is not able to reproduce the frequencies you would like, then it doesn't matter what you to with the amp and box. Aside from some box design tricks that aren't worth the trouble you need to get a speaker that will go down to the frequency you want to reach.

For example, 8 inch subs don't seem like they could really give good bass. For my truck I found an 8 inch speaker that is rated down to 20 hertz. Not many 8 inch speakers can do that but this one can. I mounted it into an open panel in the truck and sealed it so that the volume of the "box" was the correct size. So from an 8 inch driver mounted in a hollow space in my truck I get down to nearly 20 hertz.

Find a speaker that will give you the frequency you want in the box size/type you currently have, install it correctly, be sure that any internal crossover does not have a low end roll off and you should be good.

Good luck
 

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My first thought is that there is a designed in roll off at the 32 HZ. If this is true no box or driver will ever hit lower. I am not the expert on here but my lack of knowledge leads me to try things such as find an audio sample that goes lower than 32HZ and watch the sub. If the driver still moves with comparable excursion to say 34 to 38 HZ then maybe there is not a roll off built into the amp. This would be my starting point and post your discoveries for the members here that know more than I, they always seem glad to help out.
 

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So from an 8 inch driver mounted in a hollow space in my truck I get down to nearly 20 hertz.
True, but only because of the huge amount of cabin gain that an automobile environment provides. The results in a home environment would not be the same as room gain is only a fraction of cabin gain.

My first thought is that there is a designed in roll off at the 32 HZ.
You are correct. The amplifier used in this subwoofer has a Hi-Pass filter around 30 hz due to the drivers limitations.

I would like something that can get a little lower. I feel I am missing some of the low end.
If this for a HT application then you are missing a lot of low frequency information between 20 and 30 hz. Your options will be dictated by how you define a "little lower".



 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Here are some of the specs.... from the energy website.... it does have a low pass filter. ( what is a hi pass vs low pass or is that the same). Mike P you make is sound like I am out of luck :) I would like to go into the 20HZ area. I think when i used my yamaha auto calibration it had me set the low pass filter to the max of 120HZ.


Frequency Response 32Hz-140Hz
Amplifier Power Output 400 Watts dynamic, 150 Watts continuous
Woofer 10-inch (25.4 cm) Injection molded cone with Ribbed Elliptical Surround
Variable Low Pass Filter 40Hz-120Hz
Variable Phase Control 0°, 180°
Power Mode Switch Off / Auto / On
Inputs L + R Line in/Sub in, speaker level in
Overall Dimensions HxWxD (including feet and grille)
17 x 13 x 14.8 inches
43.1 x 33 x 37.6 cm
Weight 28 lbs (12.7 kg)
Max Driver Excursion 102.6dB @ 30Hz, ground plane, 1m
 

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Hypothetical question...

I bought a Energy Connoisseur ESW-c10 Sub new for about 350 bucks. I have come to determine that it is not that great. Now, Is it possible that I could use the amp rated a 400 Dynamic 150 continuous and build a new box or stick in a new driver? The box is 17 X 13 x 14.8" it is rated at 32HZ to 140HZ....

I would like something that can get a little lower. I feel I am missing some of the low end.

What do you experts suggest ? If I sell this thing on ebay I will never get back what I paid.


Chris

A single 10 probably won't get low enough for HT. People usually aim for extension down to 20hz @ 115db for HT appliation. I'm guessing it's too late to return it? Your best bet is to get a dayton woofer tester and find the T/S paramters of the driver.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Obvious I did not do the correct homework before buying ... but I am learning. My goal was to build something anyway. I figured If I could throw a better driver in that would solve problems but its not sounding like it. :spend: :spend: :spend: I knew I should have just built something from the get go. Where do I get sound files with specific freq's for testing as suggested above?
 

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You could always dig in to the amp and replace the components that decipher the roll off. It may not work for the current driver but caps and resistors won't break the bank and what better way to learn than to dive off into the deep end!!
 

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Discussion Starter #9
You could always dig in to the amp and replace the components that decipher the roll off. It may not work for the current driver but caps and resistors won't break the bank and what better way to learn than to dive off into the deep end!!
Interesting... Modify the amp. I would consider that and I think it would be fun. Maybe I could use this amp and build a new box with driver. That would save me some cash If I could get some decent performance I would do it. I am not sure how low a HT sub should go.... 18Hz?
 

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I am not sure how low a HT sub should go.... 18Hz?
115 db @ 5hz without any power compression or distortion :whistling::whistling::whistling: ... that'd show the "irene scene"!

Seriously though, for HT, getting a bit into subsonics is nice. 18hz is a good place to aim for but it all depends on your driver, your budget, etc. Definitely a lot of info in the 20-30hz range that you're currently missing out on. Remember, sound pressure level, sound quality, and extension must be balanced. Tune too low and you hurt your SPL.

AN alternate way to look at it is that if you can hit 115 db at 20hz, you're THX Certified.
 

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I am not sure how low a HT sub should go.... 18Hz?
115 db @ 5hz without any power compression or distortion :whistling::whistling::whistling: ... that'd show the "irene scene"!

Seriously though, for HT, getting a bit into subsonics is nice. 18hz is a good place to aim for but it all depends on your driver, your budget, etc. Definitely a lot of info in the 20-30hz range that you're currently missing out on. Remember, sound pressure level, sound quality, and extension must be balanced. Tune too low and you hurt your SPL.

AN alternate way to look at it is that if you can hit 105 db at 20hz, you're probably THX HT Certified. I personally would like to aim for 115 db @ 20hz... which is what a THX Certified Cinema should be capable of.
 

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what is a hi pass vs low pass or is that the same
A Hi-Pass filter is also known as a rumble filter, its purpose is to block the low frequencies that would cause a driver to exceed its rated cone excursion. A low pass filter is the opposite, it blocks frequencies above a set limit. A low pass filter set at 80 hz would block the frequencies above 80 hz, a common crossover point in subwoofers.

Mike P you make is sound like I am out of luck
With this driver and amp you are out of luck if 20 hz is the goal.


 

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Interesting... Modify the amp
You'll need the schematic diagram of the amp, not easy to come by from commercial manufacturers.

I am not sure how low a HT sub should go.... 18Hz?
That would depend on the size of the driver and how loud you want to go. a decent 12" can do 20 hz with authority.



 

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Discussion Starter #14
I only have a 15X20 living room. If I could get 20Hz from this amp and get a new driver that would be nice... I agree no schematic... and it will be hard to find. What are my choices to salvage any of this Sub.. or should I just ebay it for 1/2 price.
 

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I really feel you don't need a schematic. Most boards of this nature I have ran across are a 1 or 2 layer board, which means you should be able to draw the schematic yourself. Send me some pictures and I can try to help.
 

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There's more complications to using a proprietary amp than just the high pass filter. We don't know if this is 4 ohm stable, for example. That could be 150 watts at 4 ohms, or it could be 150 watts at 8 ohms.

If you were to get an 8 ohm driver and the former scenario is true,f you may only get like 80 watts into 8 ohms...
If you were to get a 4 ohm driver and the latter scenario is true, you may damage the amp.

You're going to need to test this thing properly. At the very least, test the woofer.
 

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People are using high pass and low pass regarding this subwoofer. I believe there is both a high pass and a low pass. If you are limiting the upper and lower end then this is both or simply a notch filter.

I am not familiar with this particular sub/amp but a really important thing to know is how is it accomplishing these filters? If the lower frequency is being rolled off with a simple crossover then you can use this amp for anything you want. Just change the crossover. I would be that is what they are doing. I think the upper number is done in the amp. I can't imagine they would dynamically adjust the low end since it is fixed.

So find a driver that actually goes down to 20 hertz, buy a crossover that will roll off at 20 hertz (forget about 18 hertz. You will still get some lower stuff because roll off is not a cliff, it is gradual) hook it up and go. The only real consideration is that the speaker be the same impedance as the original.

If in fact the sub uses a simple crossover for the low frequency roll off then this is a very simple fix. Don't overthink it. All you need is a speaker that will go down to 20 hertz and a crossover that will roll off at 20 hertz. The amp doesn't care about the low end stuff. It is regulated somehow to keep it from putting out 0 hertz which is all that matters.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
maybe I am missing something ... looking on parts express... I cant find any 10 inch woofers that rate at 20Hz? I also sent an email to energy inquiring on the ohm that the speaker is on....
 

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