[mightypants]

Hi all,

I've just recently started having some problems with image retention on my P50ST30, and I'm looking for some advice. I got the TV just over a year ago and never saw any image retention until a couple months ago. The first time I saw it, I wasn't too surprised because I had been watching a show on Hulu marathon-style--like, at least a few hours per day for the better part of a week. It was the station logo at the bottom right corner of the screen that I noticed first, which is visible throughout the duration of the show. But since then, the issue seems to have gradually gotten worse. I'm seeing it more often and more clearly. It seems to mostly be an issue with Hulu menus and station logos like I mentioned above, but I've also seen retention of certain PS3 menu items that rarely stay on-screen for an extended period of time. I generally use a custom viewing setting on my TV--I don't remember all the numbers off-hand but I think they are pretty close to the factory default for that setting.

Admittedly I was pretty bad about leaving the Hulu menu up for extended periods of time before I started seeing retention, but since I first noticed the problem I've been much better about avoiding that, or leaving any static images on-screen for that matter. I've used the scrolling bar function a bunch of times, and tried simply running the TV for extended periods of time on shows/movies that have no static elements. The problem hasn't gotten any better with these measures, and still seems to be getting worse. Luckily, up until now, retention has been primarily noticeable on solid backgrounds like system menus, and rarely when watching an actual show or movie. But I'm concerned that if the issue continues to worsen, it won't be long before it has a significant impact on my viewing enjoyment. I'm planning to try this or another similar DVD-type fix:

http://beginwithsoftware.com/videoguides/plasmatv/#.ULaZqbRm2JU

Does anyone have any other recommendations? Does this sound like your average image retention, or something different? Thanks.

 

[Jungle Jack]

Hello,
I am thinking it is a case of Persistent IR as opposed to Burn In. I have read about and know of many who have experienced similar and after weeks to months of using the Scroll Barr and keeping static images to a minimum have fixed it.

How high are the Contrast and Brightness settings on your ST30? Around 5 months in with my 60GT50, it has been flawless. I did spend the first 150 hours watching nothing but 1:78 viewing material and keeping logos to an absolute bare minimum. Since, I use the GT identical to both my LCD and SXRD without a trace.

As a hedge, I did specifically purchase the TV at Best Buy so that I could purchase their PSP as it is one of the only (might be the only) that specifically covers Burn In. If the problem is getting worse, it might be worth having a TV Repairman come out as I believe there are some special Anti IR features in the Service Menu.
Cheers,
JJ

 

[gdstupak]

mightypants,
I've already commented slightly about IR with my plasma in the Official VT50 thread.

I was using that same program you have linked to. It was doing slightly better than the built-in scrolling white bar. But I stopped about 2 weeks ago because I was getting (and still have) IR from using the memory card. I had the screen scrubber program recorded onto a memory card. The screen scrubber video was about 25seconds long and then it would automatically start over again. Every time the video would start over, a banner would appear at the top of the screen with the title and duration of the video, this banner would display for 4 seconds.
So the banner would display for 4 seconds (along with the scrubber video), and then the scrubber video would play alone for 20 seconds. I did this for several hours at a time for several nights. Then I noticed the banner was burnt into the screen.
Well I haven't used the memory card for over 2 weeks, so there has been no banner image to re-burn into the screen. I have run countless hours of movie and tv viewing material on screen, and I have run the scrolling white bar for over 5 hours these last 2 weeks. The banner IR is still on the screen, I can still read the letters and numbers when a totally white screen appears.

I wonder if most people have some IR on their screeens right now, but because you usually can't see it with normal program material it is hard to see.

Since day one, I have been very careful about long term IR and I still got it. My settings were obtained using video calibration discs.

 

[Jungle Jack]

mightypants,
I've already commented slightly about IR with my plasma in the Official VT50 thread.

I was using that same program you have linked to. It was doing slightly better than the built-in scrolling white bar. But I stopped about 2 weeks ago because I was getting (and still have) IR from using the memory card. I had the screen scrubber program recorded onto a memory card. The screen scrubber video was about 25seconds long and then it would automatically start over again. Every time the video would start over, a banner would appear at the top of the screen with the title and duration of the video, this banner would display for 4 seconds.
So the banner would display for 4 seconds (along with the scrubber video), and then the scrubber video would play alone for 20 seconds. I did this for several hours at a time for several nights. Then I noticed the banner was burnt into the screen.
Well I haven't used the memory card for over 2 weeks, so there has been no banner image to re-burn into the screen. I have run countless hours of movie and tv viewing material on screen, and I have run the scrolling white bar for over 5 hours these last 2 weeks. The banner IR is still on the screen, I can still read the letters and numbers when a totally white screen appears.

I wonder if most people have some IR on their screeens right now, but because you usually can't see it with normal program material it is hard to see.

Since day one, I have been very careful about long term IR and I still got it. My settings were obtained using video calibration discs.

Hello,
I periodically run Avia, DVE and Spears & Muncil so I can say with no hesitation that I am not experiencing any form of IR. However, I could not be more sympathetic to those who are affected by it. That being said, for those who do not notice any, I would personally not look for it as it could diminish your enjoyment of the TV.
Cheers,
JJ

 

[mightypants]

How high are the Contrast and Brightness settings on your ST30? Around 5 months in with my 60GT50, it has been flawless. I did spend the first 150 hours watching nothing but 1:78 viewing material and keeping logos to an absolute bare minimum. Since, I use the GT identical to both my LCD and SXRD without a trace.
JJ

I've been using contrast 100 and brightness 58 or so. Last night I lowered both a little--I think 95 and 55--and those settings look pretty good to me. I didn't specifically do any kind of break-in period with this TV, I didn't really know that was a thing. At that time I used it for Blurays, cable TV, and some Netflix--usually full-screen with no bars, but not always. I use all the same stuff now, except switched from Netfilx to Hulu, but with a bit more emphasis on the Hulu usage. I'm sure that has something to do with the problem, but it seems like a disproportionate result. We watched plenty of Netflix in the first 5 months of having the TV and saw no trace of IR, even after occasionally leaving the menu up for extended periods of time.

 

[gdstupak]

Don't worry about not breaking it in first, that doesn't have any effect on whether your tv will have IR later on in it's life.
Break-in period....During the first several hundred hours of plasmas use, the screen colors and brightness will change. So if you adjust everything properly when it is brand new, you will also have to re-adjust everything after several hundred hours.
Some people, like me, when they get there new sets, will put it in a different room and play colored video slides over and over for a week or two, this breaks-in all the colors evenly at one time. Then they will bring it into their normal viewing room and adjust it. The colors and brightness shouldn't change much after a proper break-in period.
In your situation, you did break it in, just with a slower pace.

 

[mightypants]

Don't worry about not breaking it in first, that doesn't have any effect on whether your tv will have IR later on in it's life.
Break-in period....During the first several hundred hours of plasmas use, the screen colors and brightness will change. So if you adjust everything properly when it is brand new, you will also have to re-adjust everything after several hundred hours.
Some people, like me, when they get there new sets, will put it in a different room and play colored video slides over and over for a week or two, this breaks-in all the colors evenly at one time. Then they will bring it into their normal viewing room and adjust it. The colors and brightness shouldn't change much after a proper break-in period.
In your situation, you did break it in, just with a slower pace.

Thanks for that info.

 

[Jungle Jack]

I've been using contrast 100 and brightness 58 or so. Last night I lowered both a little--I think 95 and 55--and those settings look pretty good to me. I didn't specifically do any kind of break-in period with this TV, I didn't really know that was a thing. At that time I used it for Blurays, cable TV, and some Netflix--usually full-screen with no bars, but not always. I use all the same stuff now, except switched from Netfilx to Hulu, but with a bit more emphasis on the Hulu usage. I'm sure that has something to do with the problem, but it seems like a disproportionate result. We watched plenty of Netflix in the first 5 months of having the TV and saw no trace of IR, even after occasionally leaving the menu up for extended periods of time.

Having the Contrast that high is a big contributor to IR and Burn In. While for 3D viewing the Contrast is set that high to offset the darker images inherent to 3D, for 2D viewing that is way too high in respect to accuracy as well.

 

[mightypants]

Having the Contrast that high is a big contributor to IR and Burn In. While for 3D viewing the Contrast is set that high to offset the darker images inherent to 3D, for 2D viewing that is way too high in respect to accuracy as well.

How low would you recommend? I haven't changed the contrast setting on any of the factory presets--I think it's 90+ for all presets except "standard," which I never use. My viewing space is not ideal in terms of sunlight and glare, which is part of the reason I keep things pretty bright. But if using lower brightness and/or contrast will reduce the amount of IR, I'll definitely play with it a bit to find a decent compromise. As I said, the amount of IR I have right now isn't having a huge negative impact on viewing, so if I can mellow it out a little (and enough to relieve my worry that it's getting progressively worse), I think that will be sufficient at least for now.

 

[Jungle Jack]

Hello,
When time permits, I would purchase a video calibration disc such as Avia, Digital Video Essentials, Spears & Muncil, etc. They provide a battery of patterns for setting Black Level, Color, Tint, and the like.

In the meantime, I would use C-Net's picture settings from when they reviewed your TV.
Here they are:

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/panasonic-tc-p50st30/4505-6482_7-34468791.html

Related products:
Panasonic TC-P42ST30
Panasonic TC-P46ST30
Panasonic TC-P55ST30
Panasonic TC-P60ST30
Panasonic TC-P65ST30

Calibration report using these settings:
http://scr.bi/jAKcpk

Below you'll find the settings we found best for viewing the Panasonic TC-P50ST30 in a dim room via the HDMI input at 1080p/24 resolution. Your settings may vary depending on source, room conditions, and personal preference. Check out the Picture settings and calibration FAQ for more information.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-9996461-1.html

--Picture menu
Picture mode: Cinema
[All settings at default; click "reset to default" to gray it out to be sure. See the review for details on why we didn't adjust any settings in this mode. Note that even Video NR should be left at Weak since changing it to Off adversely affects color temperature.]

As noted in the review, we also tried calibrating the Custom settings but experienced worse results than with the above. We're including those settings here, however, in case you want to experiment. They might also produce a better image in bright rooms than Cinema.

--Picture menu
Picture mode: Custom
Contrast: +80
Brightness: +59
Color: +32
Tint: -1
Sharpness: +20
Color temp: Warm 2
Color mgmt: Off [grayed out]
Photo enhancement: [grayed out]
C.A.T.S.: Off
Video NR: Off

-- Pro settings submenu
Color space: Normal
W/B high R: -50
W/B high G: -49
W/B high B: -26
W/B low R: +6
W/B low G: +1
W/B low B: -6
Black extension: 0
Gamma adjustment: 2.4
Panel brightness: High
Contour emphasis: Off
AGC: 0

-- Aspect adjustments submenu
Screen format: Full
HD size: Size 2
H size: [grayed out]
Zoom adjustments: [grayed out]

-- HDMI settings: [no change from default]

--Advanced picture submenu
3D Y/C filter: Off [grayed out]
Color matrix: HD [grayed out]
Block NR: Off
Mosquito NR: Off
Motion smoother: Off
Black level: Light
3:2 pulldown: On
24p Direct in: 60Hz"

Cheers,
JJ

 

[mightypants]

Thanks again for the info. Looks like CNET's first choice is the default Cinema mode setting, which I believe uses a contrast of 94, and that the custom settings are a second choice. But I'll definitely give those a shot and get a calibration disc when I can.

 

[mightypants]

Hello,
When time permits, I would purchase a video calibration disc such as Avia, Digital Video Essentials, Spears & Muncil, etc. They provide a battery of patterns for setting Black Level, Color, Tint, and the like.

In the meantime, I would use C-Net's picture settings from when they reviewed your TV.

JJ, thanks again for the advice. After adjusting the settings on my TV (I used those CNET settings, and then did a little additional tweaking), image retention has lessened. Now I rarely see it at all unless I'm looking for it, and when I do see it, it's pretty subtle. Perhaps after some more time has passed, it will be completely gone. I'm still planning to get a calibration disc as some point, but the immediate issue seems to be resolved. And, perhaps more importantly, I'm no longer concerned that there's something actually wrong with my unit.

 

[Jungle Jack]

Hello,
No worries amigo. I am so glad it has helped and I really think in time it will completely vanish. Getting a Calibration Disc will be a fantastic investment that can be used for years. You can also help your friends and loved ones get the most from their displays with it.
Cheers,
JJ