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Re: James Randi Offers $1M for Golden Ears to Successfully Differentiate High-End Cab

I agree with the viewpoint espoused on the JREF forum, but the JREF forum has already lost credibility with me from another issue.

They are sneaky and underhanded.
 

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Re: James Randi Offers $1M for Golden Ears to Successfully Differentiate High-End Cab

I agree with the viewpoint espoused on the JREF forum, but the JREF forum has already lost credibility with me from another issue.

They are sneaky and underhanded.
Care to link or elaborate?
 

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Re: James Randi Offers $1M for Golden Ears to Successfully Differentiate High-End Cab

I would discuss the JREF issue privately.

Although the cable story, as public as it is, might be an interesting podcast snip Marshall.
 

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Re: James Randi Offers $1M for Golden Ears to Successfully Differentiate High-End Cab

I would discuss the JREF issue privately.

Although the cable story, as public as it is, might be an interesting podcast snip Marshall.
Yeah, I mentioned it last week, but I don't know if I'll do a followup until some more things shake out. This latest exchange really is embarrassing for both side, regardless of how I personally feel.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
Re: James Randi Offers $1M for Golden Ears to Successfully Differentiate High-End Cab

This latest exchange really is embarrassing for both side, regardless of how I personally feel.
No kiddin'. I like James Randi, but this whole thing makes both sides look like a bunch of name-calling babies. I hope they can work something out in the name of the test, but I'd prefer it be with as little animosity as possible.
 

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Re: James Randi Offers $1M for Golden Ears to Successfully Differentiate High-End Cab

"Care to link or elaborate?"

They didn't like that I was slaying them in an argument so they posted me personal info on their group. Many other underhanded tricks.
 

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Re: James Randi Offers $1M for Golden Ears to Successfully Differentiate High-End Cab

Tell you what, put me down for $20. Let's raise the money, and personally ask Michael to make this happen.

Total reached: $20
Goal: $7400
Needed:$7380
 

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Re: James Randi Offers $1M for Golden Ears to Successfully Differentiate High-End Cab

"Care to link or elaborate?"

They didn't like that I was slaying them in an argument so they posted me personal info on their group. Many other underhanded tricks.
Was that randii personally or just the whole 'gang'. It can get very 'fanlike' on the forums etc.

This must be some sort of indication of what goes on all the time in the paranormal area. I think it would wear me down quite quickly.

I have seen MF speak and write like that before, possibly on one of the 'rebel' audio sites like Peter Aczel or something. Seems his communications (when upset) all come out of the same mold.

Surely the reference $16 000 cables are suitable? Sure, they might not have been described as danceable, but a quick review somewhere can change that. Either expensive high blown audiophool speaker cables are snake oil or they ain't. Don't see what the name on it has to do with anything.
 
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Re: James Randi Offers $1M for Golden Ears to Successfully Differentiate High-End Cab

The biggest problem with the test is that Randi gets to pick the cables.

What if it were he, and you got to pick the cables and the equipment?
 

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Re: James Randi Offers $1M for Golden Ears to Successfully Differentiate High-End Cab

Well, it started with Randi picking the cables that were reviewed by MF.

I believe that if they could put the name calling aside, they would be able to decide on a cable together. Certainly there's some manufacturer out there that has enough faith in their cables to loan out a pair for this.

Randi should also consider using MF's reference cable, assuming that it can be tested for any type of tampering.
 

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Re: James Randi Offers $1M for Golden Ears to Successfully Differentiate High-End Cab

After doing a bit of reading on this, I must admit to a bit of sympathy for MF, I feel he has been treated a little shabbily.

His 'bedside manners' can leave a bit to be desired at times, but would I be any more polite under the circumstances??

His role in this seems to be a very reasonable one to me, he was willing to take the test after the very logical step of first hearing the pear cables and determining if he felt he could tell them apart or not (to date he hasn't heard them).

When Pear pulled out (NOT MF) he got a little of the backlash directed towards him, and it also seems that he was suggesting alternative tests that could be undertaken.

So my hat goes off to MF for being brave and honest in all this, seems that Randii could also have had a bit more decorum and tact, all that while basically agreeing with his stance on the matter.

Lets hope that not too much anger has built up here, and some sort of agreed upon test can still take place.

I felt that I needed to say this because (hangs head in shame) I too at one stage was ''''laughing'''' at MF, I now believe he just got caught in the crossfire.

Latest that I could find

http://www.gadgetsclub.com/component/option,com_jd-wp/Itemid,8/p,44038/
 

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Re: James Randi Offers $1M for Golden Ears to Successfully Differentiate High-End Cab

That is incredible to think that some gifted people can hear electrons moving in a copper wire at the speed of light , I am certainly not one of those people , and i am not gullible also . Alan .
 

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Re: James Randi Offers $1M for Golden Ears to Successfully Differentiate High-End Cab

I agree that there is a difference between 10$ cables and 100$ cables. I did many many tests with cables form 100 to 1000$ and more (A-B Blind test) and I can not ear any difference. Sorry, I can't.

All my Rotel components are connect with Monster Cable THX 1000. Got them on ebay for 25$ each.

If you want to really improve your system, put money on room enhencement, not in cables.

Anyway, it's always funny to read about cables... :) LOL
 

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Re: James Randi Offers $1M for Golden Ears to Successfully Differentiate High-End Cab

the one thing I have noticed about people who are hellbent on debunking something (usualy psuedoscience or religion), like Randi, they tend to get more agressive as there knowledge and wisdom of the topic diminishes. This is not to say Randi is wrong about anything, it just tends to show his knowledge is not quite as "in-depth" as he makes out. I have noticed very similar attributes in people who try to debunk all sorts of common beliefs including things like chiropractic care. Strong language and carefully worded insults do not help anyone.

I say bring an unbiased third party, I.E the CSIRO or American equivilent to do the testing.

My 2c. (I wish I had all the 2c that people give around here, I'd be richer than Randi!! :devil:)
 

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Re: James Randi Offers $1M for Golden Ears to Successfully Differentiate High-End Cab

I've been following the challenge (read it first on digg,but interestingly enough, it has been digg-spammed, which means it (links from JREF) *can't* appear on digg).

I think it is lame that a company that sells $7k? $14k? speaker wires can't put their product up for a test. If I were to assert that my cables were the best thing since sliced bread, I should have no issues with doing side-by-side comparisons. The fact that they chickened out is enough for me to postulate that they can't back up their claims (though to be fair, I don't know if they actually claimed it- the reviewer said they were 'danceable')

As far as whoever the SCREAMER is wanting to test his own 'reference' cables- I'd give him a red flag. As other have pointed out, you can make wires which actually degrade sound, and him being able to test his own and know the 'rolloff at x frequency' is bad.

The initial $1M test offered as I read it was the Pear wires versus some overpriced monster cables. That's it. No changing the rules, unless you want to make your own contest.
 

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Re: James Randi Offers $1M for Golden Ears to Successfully Differentiate High-End Cab

I've been following the challenge

As far as whoever the SCREAMER is wanting to test his own 'reference' cables- I'd give him a red flag. As other have pointed out, you can make wires which actually degrade sound, and him being able to test his own and know the 'rolloff at x frequency' is bad.

The initial $1M test offered as I read it was the Pear wires versus some overpriced monster cables. That's it. No changing the rules, unless you want to make your own contest.
The 'screamer' you alluded to is based on the assumption that MF would deliberately set out to defraud, ie tinker with his $16 000 cables in order to win (or indeed that they measure badly in the first place). I don't know enough about him to comment on the first part, and the claims are always that 'we can hear things measurements can't tell us' so (I'm assuming) that they should measure fine out of the box. In any case, the point is that MF put that up as a possibilty and Randii was actively considering it. Evidently he decided against it because of the POSSIBILITY of factors such as you mentioned, fair enough I say. Note, that should not reflect on MF's credibility in my book.

DRF I also agree with a lot of what you say, but I would add that I feel Randii would have a lot of resources to fall back on in the areas that he personally would not be completely up to speed on. The counter to your observation is of course that the onus is not on him to DISPROVE anything,rather it is the reverse and to date.....
 

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Re: James Randi Offers $1M for Golden Ears to Successfully Differentiate High-End Cab

Terry, I agree whole heartedly. the owness is always to prove rather than disprove. I would certainly hope if he is going to defame a buisness/person publically that he would have some decent proof behing him rather than just smart words is all I'm saying.

I have an idea, they can compare my DIY cables to the monster brand and if someone picks my cables as the better quality I will sell them for the meagre audiophile price of $19,000. :sneeky:
 

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Re: James Randi Offers $1M for Golden Ears to Successfully Differentiate High-End Cab

Goodness gracious, Darren. You have forgotten the most important element. Your AC power supply. Why, here in Cali, when we hooked it up to Sierra Club approved hydroelectric generated power versus coal and nuclear powered sources, it's unbelievable what a difference it makes...but nothing like when we listened to ordinary source material powered with AC produced through lead free solar pv panels supported by virgin Yew boughs with the power routed through 100% long grain cryo treated copper wire to inverters that Tibetan monks hand wound and blessed with a sprinkling of 3000 year old snow melt from a snow cave in the Himalayas...we saw the truth...danceable? foot tapping? nothing!...we are talking removing the veil baby...pass the Yohimbe please.

Yeah, cables...:gah:
:T
 

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Re: James Randi Offers $1M for Golden Ears to Successfully Differentiate High-End Cab

This may sound hard to believe but I can easily hear the difference of not just speaker cables but putting styro foam cups under these cables to keep them away from my carpet with all the static electricity. Some times I've learned that just moving a cable 2" will have a profound effect on the quality of sound. Sometimes all the bass will just "disappear". You'll have to excuse me now because I have to go back to my padded room.:neener:

What gets me is that people will spend thousands on cable and have no acoustic treatments. They probably don't know that you can hear the difference between the acoustics of rooms. I've seen a couple very expensive systems here in town and pics on the net, including reviewers from Print magazines, that have awful rooms. As a matter of fact I've lost nearly all respect for reviewers. Whatever they say should be questioned.
 
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