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Discussion Starter #1
So I've just about given up on any big box retailer and home theater stores in Dallas drive me crazy because they assume every customer has no clue what they want and can spend 20k on a room all day long. I have found this site an incredibly valuable resource and I have a few questions for your guys. We are building a home and I've got 5 months to make decisions on gear. I'll outline what I'm thinking for speakers below and would appreciate your take and feedback.

Room size is 10x18, dedicated theater room with no windows, prewired for 7.2. Left, center, and right at hammer height with both subs in front on either side of center. 10 foot ceilings and both the rear and sides are prewired up 6 feet with the sides 13 feet from the front and rears placed in thirds along the back wall.

Due to the smaller size room, my initial decision is to put a fairly high quality bookshelf system in with bipole surrounds and in-wall rear surrounds together with 2 12" subs and a solid center speaker. I'm looking at the Aperion Versus, SVS Ultra, and Klipsch RB-62 II for speaker systems and their associated center and surrounds with matching rear in-wall surrounds as well. My budget for the 7.1 system without subs is approx 3k.

I am an audio engineer and have a good deal of knowledge on tuning systems, frequency response, etc. My least fav frequencies are the harshness from 1.6 to 4k, the mud around 260-300, and the boomy 100hz. That being said, I am fully aware that speakers are a personal preference but I've only heard the Klipsch and for the price and efficiency they sounded pretty good. My question is whether or not at my budget there are better options and for those with the Aperion or SVS set ups, what is your opinion on sound quality, sound stage, transparency, acoustic accuracy, etc?

Though not in the appropriate section, I assume an SVS sub is the only way to go right? So is the ported 13" gonna give me more than 2 12"? What the most bang for the buck there? What about their cylindrical options?

My setup will be prob 90% HT use and 10% 2 ch audio. Thanks everyone!
 

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The SVS pb13u is a beast of a sub and yes it will out preform 2 12" subs in most cases. The only advantage to having two 12" subs would be that the bass response would be smoother throughout the room but they would not dig nearly as low as the SVS.
 

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Howdy Fellow Texan! :heehee:

The first thing that came to mind was room treatment, followed by multiple subs to smooth room response; both will help achieve your mentioned goals for quality sound, perhaps as much as speaker selection. Flexibility with your sub placement might be quite helpful as well.

Further suggestions might be assisted by how many/placement of seating you plan for the room.
 

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With that budget I would give Jon or Craig a call @ Chane Music & Cinema. Link at the top of the page. They are offering some nice package deals currently...really worth a look.
 

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From what I can see, in that small space, I agree with the nod to bipoles, and ironglens suggestion of treatment will also play a big part. Especially with a 10' width. I also agree with tony on the ultra. It is a beast. Since you're gonna be 90% theater, I would say ultra again. Small spaces can use sealed subs, but in my experience, for a mostly HT application you'll be more satisfied with the easy power and impact of ported. Plus, the ultra can be configured for sealed if you want to play with that idea. I use 2 PC pluses, and they dig deep an hit nice too. They are also tunable, and while I might choose differently for a music only system, they do admirably there too. I also prefer their appearance. Since your building, maybe a DIY side project might fit in? A couple of TC powered sonosubs... Again I would keep treatment in mind too. I've used the analogy of focusing in with binoculars(who hasn't done that right? Lol). That's a visual equivalent of what good room treatment will do. You might have enough scraps laying around to frame up some absorbers, and maybe fill material too. While you're in build mode, maybe pull some cable to the rear corners for an experiment in sub placement,(that's where mine are) or in case you end up with 4!!! Pics?
Will
 

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Discussion Starter #6
From what I can see, in that small space, I agree with the nod to bipoles, and ironglens suggestion of treatment will also play a big part. Especially with a 10' width. I also agree with tony on the ultra. It is a beast. Since you're gonna be 90% theater, I would say ultra again. Small spaces can use sealed subs, but in my experience, for a mostly HT application you'll be more satisfied with the easy power and impact of ported. Plus, the ultra can be configured for sealed if you want to play with that idea. I use 2 PC pluses, and they dig deep an hit nice too. They are also tunable, and while I might choose differently for a music only system, they do admirably there too. I also prefer their appearance. Since your building, maybe a DIY side project might fit in? A couple of TC powered sonosubs... Again I would keep treatment in mind too. I've used the analogy of focusing in with binoculars(who hasn't done that right? Lol). That's a visual equivalent of what good room treatment will do. You might have enough scraps laying around to frame up some absorbers, and maybe fill material too. While you're in build mode, maybe pull some cable to the rear corners for an experiment in sub placement,(that's where mine are) or in case you end up with 4!!! Pics?
Will
Thanks for this. We are in the framing process as we speak so I'll start posting pics in the build threads shortly. Yes I had already thought about pulling some cable for multiple sub locations; great idea. As far as treatment is concerned, obviously the mirror method works but to what extent? Left wall, right wall, ceiling, rear wall. Are we talking absorption or reflection? Bass traps? This is the part of the room design that I know the least about. Don't want to hijack my own thread as there is a lot of good treatment threads on here. I'll start spending some more time over there! Thanks again.
 

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My pleasure. I have to admit that I too know comparatively less about the best way to treat a room than to equip it. I'll defer the tough answers over to the treatment threads as not to speak out of turn. Lol. Also contact GIK. They are the real experts, and really helpful, I understand. We'll be watchin!
Good luck.
 

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Well your room sounds very similar to mine except you have 10 foot ceilings. I personally have the Aperion Verus Grand Towers and love love love them! They are such a great speaker in my opinion. If you read the reviews they are very favorable but they do have their weak points. But for the money I don't think you will be disappointed.

I have an SVS sub too but only a NSD level so I can't comment on the Ultra but I find the NSD lots in my room. Again another great buy IMO.

So in short, you can buy Aperion and SVS pretty much worry free. They are both great choices!
 

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Hummm.
Since you want to go with the bookshelf speakers I would get the RB-81's for the fuller sound.
If they are going to be on speaker stands I would get the RF-62'S or RF-82's, again for the fuller sound and they don't take up much more floor space than the bookshelf speakers on stands.
The RC-62 is a great center channel speaker.
With your limited floor space I would consider one of the SVS cylinder subs. While the 13 ultra is certainly a beast one of the lower models would still easily be capable of overwhelming the room. Not arguing against the ultra, just sayin'.
For surround speakers opinions vary but I really like the RS series compared to the less expensive bookshelf options, but it depends on how wide of an area you want direct sound to cover.
For rears the main problem with built in speakers is they are built in.
I would go with wall mounted instead.
Sorry your experience with the Dallas area stores has been negative, mine has ranged from stellar to pathetic.
On occasion there are deals to be had at Starpower. The sales staff varies a lot in knowledge and attitude but there are lots of them so just sift through till you get one you like.
Above all be courteous and if buying a set of speakers and AVR there are deals to be negotiated.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Above all be courteous and if buying a set of speakers and AVR there are deals to be negotiated.
This is my problem, none so far have been willing to negotiate anything. They tell me they're giving me their "best price" but I know too well what all this stuff sells for and their prices suck. One local store located inside some of the furniture stores around town quoted $6500 for a 7.1 system including the very lowest end in-wall Klipsch speakers, a sunfire sub, BenQ proj, and generic screen. Are you kidding???

I have read good things about the RB-62ii and RB-82ii but have only heard their floor standing stuff at Fry's. They sound pretty good although wasn't too impressed with the sub. Would the Aperion Versus or SVS Ultra sound better? Who knows. I will eq the system to my liking but I want to get a speaker that has the best sounding soundstage and most neutral sound right out of the box. Decisions decisions. Gonna be a fun 4-5 months of research before the house is built. Thanks for the input!
 

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You are in the states and you have tons of options . The best deals you wont find on a brick store but truth ID companies like Aperion or SVS and you have a 30 day trial . I heard good things from the Aperion and SVS but it all comes down to what you like since it's your money :D

For a receiver take a look at accessories4less
 

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You say you know what this stuff sells for...just for my own reality check...Please tell me what you expect to pay for a specific set of Klipsch speakers. It can be for a pair or for a 5-7 speaker set, but be specific about the model numbers.
 

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I have seen some Home theater shops give there best deal and there price was 3x what you could find the same item online at several different sites. The markup can be crazy at some places and they seem to feel that if you walked in there door that you have not looked around and they can take you for a ride.

As for room treatments GIK has some great stuff and if you call them can help you with how much and placement of the traps.
 

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You say you know what this stuff sells for...just for my own reality check...Please tell me what you expect to pay for a specific set of Klipsch speakers. It can be for a pair or for a 5-7 speaker set, but be specific about the model numbers.
Relatively speaking. I don't have cost guides of every speaker on the market, but with the online resources available I have been able to call on most local retail HT shops I've gotten quotes from. They "package" everything up, tell you they're giving you a deal, meanwhile I'm able to use online resources (many of which coming from members of this forum) and get significantly better pricing. I guess they bank on those customers who come in knowing very little about the products, have deep pockets, and don't ask questions. Lots of those folks in Dallas!
 

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The last time I was using a local B&M Shop, I just played honest with them. I always used the same salesman (they do work on commision) & told hip up front.

"I can buy this stuff online, but I would rather keep the money local, so if you can work with me--I don't mind paying a bit more for the store front. But I'm not going to pay retail!"

This approach worked great for me. The guy would see me coming & come greet me & we would talk. I told him what I would pay (I was fair) & 95% of the time it was a sale.

That being said: I had to buy my PB13U online. There was no way they could compete.
 

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With the on-line companies, they tend to be at a lower cost as they don't have the overhead of B&M locations.

You will find that both the Klipsch and Aperion bookshelf have strong attributes but will have significant different sound qualities. The RB62 should be quite bright compared to the VGB due to the different tweeters being used. So you will need to determine what type of sound you are looking for.

I would look hard at the warranty and the trial time, as well as the return policy. Some will even cover the return shipping cost if you are not satisfied.

The SVS subs can generally go lower than the Bravus 12D, and is what I recommend to anyone that wants deep low bass under 30hz.

Hope this helps!

:T
 
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