Home Theater Forum and Systems banner

21 - 40 of 118 Posts

·
HTS Senior Moderator
Joined
·
5,288 Posts
I'd do the 4 corners all vertically and straddling.

Having one edge of the Monster off the wall a few inches won't hurt at all.

Bryan
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,620 Posts
Discussion Starter #22
I have my answer.

I just played the opening scene of Cars on Blu Ray (uncompressed PCM).

NEVER has that Velodyne sub sounded like THAT before.

Amazing, simply amazing...

Great job GIK!

But of course, you knew that already:bigsmile:
 

·
HTS Senior Moderator
Joined
·
5,288 Posts
Outstanding. Glad they're working well for you. It's so hard to explain what it can do when you control the bottom end and you actually end up with more, deeper, and cleaner bass. Once you hear it though - you're hooked.

Bryan
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,620 Posts
Discussion Starter #24
I think I am going to cut one of the 48" original ones down to 42" tomorrow and put it in the 4th corner on top of the other rear K'horn - that will get all corners done the same. Looks like it is do-able and would be easier (for me) than flying two at ceiling level. Plus, it would look better and I can easily fill the corner space with loose pink stuff. The remaining original one will stay on the stand in front of the fireplace.

Even my wife noticed the difference last night (which is saying a lot) on network TV shows. Vocals and speech are firmly locked to the center like never before with less "chestiness" as others have described.

The room is definately deader in mid/high freqs now. Either I have over done it with the wall mounted first reflection panels or I just need to get used to it. Also need to re-run Audyssey and let it adjust to the additional absorption.

Hope to have time to post some "after" plots tomorrow.
 

·
HTS Senior Moderator
Joined
·
5,288 Posts
Before you go trying to cut things up, try mounting it horizontally and straddling the wall/ceiling junction.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,620 Posts
Discussion Starter #26
OK, I will try that with the two 48" ones and use the 3rd 42" one in front of the fireplace on one of the stands. I have some large black "L" brackets that I can mount on the side walls to secure the bottom of the traps & then tie them off at the top.

I tried putting them horizontally on top of the rear K'horns when I first got them, but did not like the look. Won't be as noticeable at the ceiling.
 

·
HTS Senior Moderator
Joined
·
5,288 Posts
Good. It's just almost impossible to redo these to a different size due to the construction. If you have to have them done, I'd prefer to do it at the factory.

Bryan
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,620 Posts
Discussion Starter #28
I was able to "escape" the office this afternoon and mounted the 48" Monster traps horizontally at ceiling level above the rear K'horns. The 42" traps are located as follows: 1 each on top of the L/R mains; the third is on a GIK stand in front of the fireplace, in the center of the rear wall, about 21" off the rear wall.

I could tell last night that "magic" had happened in the room with the additional traps. Here is the first "after" waterfall. Conditions are as follows:

Sub only; 80Hz crossover; Audyssey & BFD off, mic in center chair. Notice the significant reduction in ringing in the 50-60Hz range. The ringing around 100Hz may be a buzz in the suspended ceiling - gotta check on that...
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,620 Posts
Discussion Starter #31
Here is the FR plot with the same setup as before, sub only but Audyssey turned ON. Note that I DID re-run Audyssey before these measurements to compensate for the added traps. Truly odd results; it seems that it is compensating for bass from the mains, since it set them to LARGE. Not even gonna bother with a waterfall for this one.
 

Attachments

·
HTS Senior Moderator
Joined
·
5,288 Posts
Looking pretty good. Try broadening the Q of the EQ band you have between 30 and 40Hz.

Bryan
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,620 Posts
Discussion Starter #35
Yeah, I see that now. The last filter I set was a broad one centered at 20Hz to try to compensate for the LF rolloff in the BFD. I may have some overlap there. Makes sense that a narrow Q filter would cause electronic ringing, but perhaps not that much?

Also, I noticed as I was taking everything down that the ECM8000 was pointed almost horizontally, instead of vertically. I forgot to reposition it on the tripod after mounting the Denon mic to run Audyssey. That could account for some of the differences in the graphs after the first one that I posted.

Anyway, I had XM Watercolors Jazz playing from DirecTV for a while - very, very smooth bass response, especially on electric bass as it ran up and down the scale. Impressive difference.

I was going to mount the 3rd 42" trap from the ceiling above the fireplace, but was too tired. Wouldn't mind freeing up the floor space.

Do you think others would be interested in seeing pictures of the hanging Monster traps with a description of how I did it? I could start a new thread...
 

·
HTS Senior Moderator
Joined
·
5,288 Posts
Pics are always helpful. I think this thread would be a good place for them though just to keep things together.

Bryan
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,620 Posts
Discussion Starter #37
Bryan: As noted in previous posts, adding the 3 traps after the first 2 made a huge difference. I might have room to put a couple more Monsters in the room in a month or so (maybe side walls at ceiling), but am wondering where the cost/benefit end point is in all this.

I read posts such as those by thewire and others that indicate the need for many traps in a small room such as mine. How do I judge how much is enough? Surely the waterfall plots indicate that some improvement can be made, but I have discovered during this work that subjective performance improvement is far greater than measurements suggest.

Thanks.
 

·
HTS Senior Moderator
Joined
·
5,288 Posts
You're absolutely correct. You've made great strides in response and decay time. You're still using EQ to smooth the curve which is fine. Adding additional treatments may or may not improve the response depending on whether the position required is feasible. It will definitely help more with the decay time but be realistic about the ringing down in the 20's. That's just about impossible to completely deal with using any kind of sane treatments.

You're also correct that subjective improvements can be very different than just pure measurements. Many other things are impacted by getting the bass under control.

While I'd be stupid to not want to sell you more treatments, my recommendation right now would be to hold tight and live with this for a while and really get used to what each thing is doing for you. Then, you can move a couple of the things around and see what other positions might buy you while understanding what things are being caused by removing what you've just done.

At that point, you'll be better informed to make a good decision as to the cost/benefit of adding a couple more.

Also, remember that any EQ you've done now is only valid for this configuration. Move any of the treatments, move the seating, move anything else, and you'll need to start at 0 again for EQ and readjust accordingly.

Bryan
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,620 Posts
Discussion Starter #39
Sounds like a plan, Bryan. I need to pick up some R30 batts for the attic within the next 2-3 weeks (shoulda never allowed the builder to use blown-in!), so I may try laying a few above the ceiling tiles on the sides of the room before hauling them into the attic just to see what that does.

Thanks again for all your advice. I was really on the fence about traps until your phone call.
 

·
HTS Senior Moderator
Joined
·
5,288 Posts
No problem at all. If you haven't done the drop ceiling yet, I'd definitely do that before doing anything else.

Bryan
 
21 - 40 of 118 Posts
Top