Home Theater Forum and Systems banner

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I recently read that Sherwin Williams Cashmere rolls well because of the leveling characteristics of it. I would like to get that, but my Sherwin Williams store doesn't have that in a quart. Has anyone tried the Duration product? Even though Duration is their top of the line paint, a quart of that is still a lot cheaper than a gallon of Cashmere.

Also, has anyone tried their eggshell/satin? Paints like Valspar and Behr have eggshell and satin paints, but they theirs is the same paint. I want to use eggshell, but I am afraid that their eggshell might not work well.

Most of these questions are stemming from the fact that I need to repaint my main screen, because it got damaged yesterday. The SW7071 Gray Screen eggshell paint that mechman made looks good for me to try. I am rather sensitive to shimmer and sparklies which is why I am going with something simple this time around.

The bottom line is that I really want whatever rolls the best, and if that ends up being Cashmere then I will suck it up and pay the difference. I have no problem spending the money if I have to, but I don't care to spend money foolishly and pay $40 for a gallon of paint when I can get by with a $15 quart that works equally well. I am contemplating buying a sprayer, but for now I would prefer to keep that out of the conversation.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
14,914 Posts
Bill (wbassett) recommends Duration. That is what he used for his original Gray Screen. We've done quite a bit of work lately with eggshells and satins. The eggshell paints that we have tested do not appear to hot spot at all.

I say go for the Duration eggshell and report back. :T
 

·
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
3,772 Posts
I can't help you with what paint rolls the best as I simply don't roll paint.

As for eggshell paints that are safe to use (don't hot spot), I have only tested Valspar Ultra Premium which works fine.

I will be testing some of the satin paints from Sherwin-Williams as per the Projector Central article.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
I decided to go with the Duration satin in SW7071. I will probably paint it sometime this week, hopefully tomorrow night. I will report back with my findings.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
303 Posts
I decided to go with the Duration satin in SW7071. I will probably paint it sometime this week, hopefully tomorrow night. I will report back with my findings.
Should work well.

I usually go with eggshell, but satin will work just as well. Really can't go wrong with any of the SW paints.
 

·
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
3,772 Posts
I usually go with eggshell, but satin will work just as well. Really can't go wrong with any of the SW paints.
I'll let you know. ;)

I got a quart of the "ProClassic Smooth Enamel" and a quart of the "Colors to Go", both in 'Extra White" and in satin finish. One was $20 a quart and the other was $5 a quart. We'll see if there is a difference (the colors are the same - a fairly neutral medium brightness white).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
So after ~7 hours of curing, the SW Duration Satin is noticeably hot spotting on me. I will check it again tomorrow morning after it has had a full 24 hours to cure, but so far not so good. I decided to get my camera to confirm what I was seeing with my eyes. Sure enough, it is about 66% brighter in the middle of the screen (2/3 of an f-stop, measured with a 1% spot meter).

The good news is that I was able to paint it without any roller marks. There is one spot that can be seen under bright light where it isn't as uniform as the rest of the screen, but it is a lot better than my last attempt.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Why did you go with Satin? Satin hot spots slightly worse than silver fire. You should have went with eggshell at most.
Sherwin Williams doesn't make an eggshell in any paint. If you ask them about it, they will just tell you that satin and eggshell are the same. I thought I would give it a try which is why I didn't want to buy a gallon.

I came to the same conclusion as you, and thought it was pretty close to SF2.

I will repaint it, but I haven't decided with what yet.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
14,914 Posts

·
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
3,772 Posts
Just found this info at the SW site.

http://www.sherwin-williams.com/do_it_yourself/products/shelf/interior_paint_coatings/paint/

BTW, paint finish is usually measured at 85° for very low sheen finishes, 60° for intermediate finishes and rarely, but sometimes, at 20° for very high gloss finishes. These are angles relative to the surface; 0° is straight up from the surface.

Duration Home® Interior Acrylic Latex
Matte = 2 - 7 units @ 85°
Satin = 15 - 20 units @ 85°
Semi-Gloss = 35 - 45 units @ 60°

Harmony® Interior Acrylic Latex
Flat = 0 - 5 units @ 85°
Eg-Shel = 10 - 20 units @ 85°
Semi-Gloss = 35 - 45 units @ 60°

Cashmere® Interior Acrylic Latex
Flat Enamel = 2 - 7 units @ 85°
Low Lustre = Sheen @ 85° 35 - 45 units, Gloss @ 60° 5 - 15 units
Medium Lustre = Sheen @ 85° 85 - 95 units, Gloss @ 60° 50-60 units

SuperPaint® Interior Acrylic Latex
Flat = 0-5 units @ 85°
Satin = 10-20 units @ 85°
Semi-Gloss = no document found

ProClassic® Interior Acrylic Latex
Satin = 15 - 25 units @ 85°
Semi-Gloss = 35-45 units @ 60°
Gloss = 70 units @ 60°
High Gloss = 60 units @ 20°, 80 units @ 60°

ProClassic® Interior Waterbased Acrylic-Alkyd
Satin = 24 hours 27-37 units @ 60°, 30 days 20-30 units @ 60°
Semi-Gloss = 24 hours 41-51 units @ 60°, 30 days 34-44 units @ 60°

Classic 99® Interior Acrylic Latex
Flat = 0-5 units @ 85°
Satin = 10-20 units @ 85°
Semi-Gloss = 25-35 units @ 60°

ColorAccents™ Interior Latex
Flat = 0-2 units @ 85°
Satin = 10 - 20 units @ 85°
Semi-Gloss = 25 - 35 units @ 60°

All Surface Enamel Latex Base
Satin = no document found
Low Sheen = 70 units @ 60°, Satin Black 10-20 units @ 60°, Satin Ultradeep 30-40 units @ 60°
High Gloss = same document as above

Design Basics™ Interior Latex
Flat = 0-5 units @ 85°
Satin = 15-20 units @ 85°
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
So they must have a matte or a flat enamel and then right up to satin then, huh? :scratch: I haven't spent much time at Sherwin Williams because it's farther away than Home Depot, Lowes, and Menards.
In all of their paint brands they usually have 3 finishes. In Duration it is matte, satin, and semi-gloss. In Cashmere it is flat-enamel, low lustre, and medium lustre. In SuperPaint, it is flat, satin, and semi-gloss. Why they do that is beyond me.

Home Depot isn't much further away, so I can go there to get a larger selection of finishes. The reason I didn't is because I wanted to try a supposedly higher quality paint to see if it rolled better, and I was willing to see how satin looked knowing that I might have to repaint.

Right now I am trying to decided between SW 7071 in Behr eggshell, SW Cashmere flat-enamel, or one of the N8 mixes. If I go with Cashmere it will be so I can roll it and get a smoother surface. I will likely buy a sprayer if I decide to go with one of the others, because I am not a fan of texture. I sometimes use dynamic mode during the day, and the texture is pretty obvious with that much light.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
14,914 Posts
Just found this info at the SW site.

http://www.sherwin-williams.com/do_it_yourself/products/shelf/interior_paint_coatings/paint/

BTW, paint finish is usually measured at 85° for very low sheen finishes, 60° for intermediate finishes and rarely, but sometimes, at 20° for very high gloss finishes. These are angles relative to the surface; 0° is straight up from the surface.

Duration Home® Interior Acrylic Latex
Matte = 2 - 7 units @ 85°
Satin = 15 - 20 units @ 85°
Semi-Gloss = 35 - 45 units @ 60°

Harmony® Interior Acrylic Latex
Flat = 0 - 5 units @ 85°
Eg-Shel = 10 - 20 units @ 85°
Semi-Gloss = 35 - 45 units @ 60°

Cashmere® Interior Acrylic Latex
Flat Enamel = 2 - 7 units @ 85°
Low Lustre = Sheen @ 85° 35 - 45 units, Gloss @ 60° 5 - 15 units
Medium Lustre = Sheen @ 85° 85 - 95 units, Gloss @ 60° 50-60 units

SuperPaint® Interior Acrylic Latex
Flat = 0-5 units @ 85°
Satin = 10-20 units @ 85°
Semi-Gloss = no document found

ProClassic® Interior Acrylic Latex
Satin = 15 - 25 units @ 85°
Semi-Gloss = 35-45 units @ 60°
Gloss = 70 units @ 60°
High Gloss = 60 units @ 20°, 80 units @ 60°

ProClassic® Interior Waterbased Acrylic-Alkyd
Satin = 24 hours 27-37 units @ 60°, 30 days 20-30 units @ 60°
Semi-Gloss = 24 hours 41-51 units @ 60°, 30 days 34-44 units @ 60°

Classic 99® Interior Acrylic Latex
Flat = 0-5 units @ 85°
Satin = 10-20 units @ 85°
Semi-Gloss = 25-35 units @ 60°

ColorAccents™ Interior Latex
Flat = 0-2 units @ 85°
Satin = 10 - 20 units @ 85°
Semi-Gloss = 25 - 35 units @ 60°

All Surface Enamel Latex Base
Satin = no document found
Low Sheen = 70 units @ 60°, Satin Black 10-20 units @ 60°, Satin Ultradeep 30-40 units @ 60°
High Gloss = same document as above

Design Basics™ Interior Latex
Flat = 0-5 units @ 85°
Satin = 15-20 units @ 85°
You should probably throw this in it's own thread as well Don. Lock it and just make it a gloss reading thread. :T

In all of their paint brands they usually have 3 finishes. In Duration it is matte, satin, and semi-gloss. In Cashmere it is flat-enamel, low lustre, and medium lustre. In SuperPaint, it is flat, satin, and semi-gloss. Why they do that is beyond me.

Home Depot isn't much further away, so I can go there to get a larger selection of finishes. The reason I didn't is because I wanted to try a supposedly higher quality paint to see if it rolled better, and I was willing to see how satin looked knowing that I might have to repaint.

Right now I am trying to decided between SW 7071 in Behr eggshell, SW Cashmere flat-enamel, or one of the N8 mixes. If I go with Cashmere it will be so I can roll it and get a smoother surface. I will likely buy a sprayer if I decide to go with one of the others, because I am not a fan of texture. I sometimes use dynamic mode during the day, and the texture is pretty obvious with that much light.
If you go to Home Depot, get the Glidden brand paint over the Behr. They make an eggshell. It's a bit cheaper and Harp had a painter tell him that it was a much better paint than the Behr product. If you do try the Cashmere, I'd love to hear about it. That paint intrigued me when I first saw it. Is it available in a quart?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Unfortunately, Cashmere is not available in a quart.

Can you help me make sense of that chart? I assume the "units" is the amount of gloss added to the paint. Do you know how much Glidden eggshell has?
 

·
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
3,772 Posts
Unfortunately, Cashmere is not available in a quart.

Can you help me make sense of that chart? I assume the "units" is the amount of gloss added to the paint. Do you know how much Glidden eggshell has?
No, "gloss units" is the amount of measurable gloss a surface has, but I have not been able to determine exactly how GU relates to say "percentage of light reflected" or anything else. The standards that gloss meters are referenced at are commercial, not free, and I just can't bring myself to pay the ~$50 for an 8 page report. From what I have been able to determine GU is a consistent measurement across all gloss meters and not an arbitrary thing.

The finish rating for Glidden Premium interior eggshell latex paint is: Gloss - 6-16 units @ 60º
http://www.duspec.com/DuSpec2/document/DocumentDisplayController.htm?documentId=944170

Also the higher the gloss of a finish the more GU it takes to detect a visible difference in gloss level.

A good intro to gloss measurement: http://www.gloss-meters.com/GlossIntro.html
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
So if I am reading things correctly, it looks like the Cashmere low lustre has close to the same number of gloss units at 60º. We don't know how that will translate into reflectivity, but what I take from this is that the two paints should have a similar finish. Is that correct?
 

·
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
3,772 Posts
So if I am reading things correctly, it looks like the Cashmere low lustre has close to the same number of gloss units at 60º. We don't know how that will translate into reflectivity, but what I take from this is that the two paints should have a similar finish. Is that correct?
There is no direct correlation that I can find to be able to convert from one degree measurement to another; nor to correlate gloss directly to gain.

FYI, the listed gloss level for Valspar Ultra Premium Eggshell is: Sheen: 10 – 20 Units @ 85° angle

What I find interesting is that Duration satin has been reported to hot spot and it is, by it's stats, within the upper bounds of the Valspar eggshell. :scratch:

My guess is that the Cashmere Low Lustre could well hot spot, but I don't know for sure. I have not tested the Glidden eggshell yet, but yes, it's gloss level should be similar to Cashmere Low Lustre.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
I just found that the PPG Grand Distinction eggshell that Mech used in his SF comparison thread has 5-10 units at 60°, so it looks like it could be a little less than either the Glidden or the SW. The Satin in his other test is 10-18 at 60°. It would be nice if the same meter reading was used for the various finishes, so we can draw some better conclusions.

I did a comparison of the SW 7071 in Duration satin to my Elite MaxWhite screen, and they are pretty similar. The Elite MaxWhite screen was measured at 1.03 gain @ 0° and .99 gain at 18°, so not too bad. Maybe the screen got better as the paint cured, or maybe I jumped the gun a bit on my earlier statement.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
I have to take back my comments about the Duration satin hot spotting. It is pretty even with perhaps some mild hot-spotting. It is ever so slightly hotter in the middle, but I think it is partially do to me not being able to project a completely uniform light source on it than any tendency toward hot spotting.

I am showing that it is 10% brighter in the middle compared to the outside edge of a 94" screen. Factor in vignetting from the lens and light falloff from the flash, and that 10% number gets even smaller.

The brighter area in the upper-right corner is light reflected onto the screen from my camera flash.
 

Attachments

·
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
3,772 Posts
Yes, hot spotting can occur due to the PJ OR the screen, or both.

May I ask why you are using a flash to take a photo that looks for hot spotting while under projection? Depending on how evenly distributed a camera's flash is can also make a screen hot spot.
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top