I had it for sale for $3,600 with the amp, but it's off the market now.
Maelstrom 21" With 4 - 2100 Gram 18" Passive Radiators
Here is my build thread for the Maelstrom 21. I'll try to provide enough quality pics during my build for you.
I'm using Kevin's Maelstrom 21"er with the passive radiator design. I normally don't like building a passive radiator sub with a Qts over .4, but it is so close, I won't have a problem.
Here's the deal....23" x 23" x 60"; 13 cubes and 15.5 hz box tuning. With the typical passive radiator design there is more of a roll off but at this already low box tuning, I'll have more than plenty of bass. I needed the height to match my main speaker's height and get the cabinet volume I need. Better WAF here.
I just picked up the pallet of materials from my mill. My construction material is 1.25" mdf. It looked like I had ten bags of concrete in my truck going down the road. In the roll of plastic, I've got two sheets of Pionite black slate laminate to match all of my other speakers.
Cabinet resonance with this thick material; I don't think so. Moving it? Now that's another challenge.
Just got back from Houston with the materials so here is the first build pic:
Read more: So where are the Maelstrom-X 21" Build Threads! - Home Theater Systems - Electronics and Forum - HomeTheaterShack http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...elstrom-x-21-build-threads.html#ixzz0XWvNWnLo
I'm using Kevin's Maelstrom 21"er with the passive radiator design. I normally don't like building a passive radiator sub with a Qts over .4, but it is so close, I won't have a problem.
Here's the deal....23" x 23" x 60"; 13 cubes and 15.5 hz box tuning. With the typical passive radiator design there is more of a roll off but at this already low box tuning, I'll have more than plenty of bass. I needed the height to match my main speaker's height and get the cabinet volume I need. Better WAF here.
I just picked up the pallet of materials from my mill. My construction material is 1.25" mdf. It looked like I had ten bags of concrete in my truck going down the road. In the roll of plastic, I've got two sheets of Pionite black slate laminate to match all of my other speakers.
Cabinet resonance with this thick material; I don't think so. Moving it? Now that's another challenge.
Just got back from Houston with the materials so here is the first build pic:
Read more: So where are the Maelstrom-X 21" Build Threads! - Home Theater Systems - Electronics and Forum - HomeTheaterShack http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...elstrom-x-21-build-threads.html#ixzz0XWvNWnLo
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Oh, my bad. I could have sworn that you said that you listed it on craigslist haha.It is listed here at the Shack:
http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...lstrom-21-subwoofer-sale-3-600-amplifier.html
Sorry for the confusion...
I did earlier after I read your post.....Thanks for the reminder....I sold my new NAD in 10 minutes there! [Houston's Craigslist]Oh, my bad. I could have sworn that you said that you listed it on craigslist haha.
Sorry for the confusion...
Well, another challenge being undertaken at this time. I've been working on the grill frames but ran short on red oak 1 x 2 material. I bought more than I thought I needed but still need two more pieces.
I hope to get the last one built tomorrow, route all of the edges front and back, paint them with a flat black paint to hide them behind the porous audio grill cloth. I'll then upholster them sometime this week. I'll probably do it Christmas day. Last Christmas season, I spent 4 days re-upholstering 13 grills on all of my speakers so they would all match. How coincidental!
These builds take a great deal of work, a lot more than meets the eye.
I hope to get the last one built tomorrow, route all of the edges front and back, paint them with a flat black paint to hide them behind the porous audio grill cloth. I'll then upholster them sometime this week. I'll probably do it Christmas day. Last Christmas season, I spent 4 days re-upholstering 13 grills on all of my speakers so they would all match. How coincidental!
These builds take a great deal of work, a lot more than meets the eye.
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Hi Mike,
It is such a wonderful project, it was a pleasure actually seeing you pushing the limits of nature extending the response to 15Hz or even 10Hz, that is the most passionate and enthusiastic of all I have seen. I think if there was a zoo with elephants in your town they would have known an infra sonic creature has come in town. :unbelievable: Wow
I have a question on the passive radiators you used in it, what is the brand/ model name and did you place the weights on them or they just arrived loaded as you purchased them?
Does the asymmetrical placement of the driver and the passives count for an improved performance
Thank you in advance
It is such a wonderful project, it was a pleasure actually seeing you pushing the limits of nature extending the response to 15Hz or even 10Hz, that is the most passionate and enthusiastic of all I have seen. I think if there was a zoo with elephants in your town they would have known an infra sonic creature has come in town. :unbelievable: Wow
I have a question on the passive radiators you used in it, what is the brand/ model name and did you place the weights on them or they just arrived loaded as you purchased them?
Does the asymmetrical placement of the driver and the passives count for an improved performance
Thank you in advance
Veltiorian,
The passive radiators are 18" 1600 gram flat MDF. I did add another 500 grams to each of them by using a two part epoxy from Devcon and some large heavy flat washers. They don't have studs, but the epoxy works well.
Kevin has some 21" passives available now. You would only need two of them.
As far as the placement, I wanted to get the woofer as low as I could for some floor reflection. I needed to keep it high enough so both the upper and lower passives would work together. Pioneer recommended an offset from center woofer placement for my truck shallow mount sub behind the seat. Not being an engineer, I would say it is due to some kind of compression reason. I also built a nice large polyfil bag out of stretched audio grade grillcloth in the upper portion of the cabinet, and I didn't want any influence or interference from that being in the way of the free air to the back of the main driver to the the upper passives.
I haven"t posted in a while and have watched more concerts and movies since then, pushing the limits and breaking in this monster. It has improved with the break-in time.
We watched the Day After the other night and I finally broke the WAF bass barrier. She doesn't like it! It got so low with the LFE from this movie, I had to keep setting my eq gain lower because the entire home was shaking. I didn't want to break any more seals on my large insulated windows either. I had to educate her that the subwoofer was producing the sounds just like the movie director intended! I have a 5" concrete slab on piers too! She has already lost many items that have fallen off the shelves and broke from my earlier builds. I can't say enough good things about this subwoofer. I even bought another 21" Maelstrom for a spare.
It would do you good to Google "XBL^2 motor" and learn more about Dan Wiggin's patented motor structure. That was the selling ticket for me as I know him and his work from the old Adire Audio days. I still communicate with him with some other work.
Buy one of these and you certainly won't be disappointed. Be sure to prep the wife for a whole new listening experience. You may need an D attorney later.
Mike
The passive radiators are 18" 1600 gram flat MDF. I did add another 500 grams to each of them by using a two part epoxy from Devcon and some large heavy flat washers. They don't have studs, but the epoxy works well.
Kevin has some 21" passives available now. You would only need two of them.
As far as the placement, I wanted to get the woofer as low as I could for some floor reflection. I needed to keep it high enough so both the upper and lower passives would work together. Pioneer recommended an offset from center woofer placement for my truck shallow mount sub behind the seat. Not being an engineer, I would say it is due to some kind of compression reason. I also built a nice large polyfil bag out of stretched audio grade grillcloth in the upper portion of the cabinet, and I didn't want any influence or interference from that being in the way of the free air to the back of the main driver to the the upper passives.
I haven"t posted in a while and have watched more concerts and movies since then, pushing the limits and breaking in this monster. It has improved with the break-in time.
We watched the Day After the other night and I finally broke the WAF bass barrier. She doesn't like it! It got so low with the LFE from this movie, I had to keep setting my eq gain lower because the entire home was shaking. I didn't want to break any more seals on my large insulated windows either. I had to educate her that the subwoofer was producing the sounds just like the movie director intended! I have a 5" concrete slab on piers too! She has already lost many items that have fallen off the shelves and broke from my earlier builds. I can't say enough good things about this subwoofer. I even bought another 21" Maelstrom for a spare.
It would do you good to Google "XBL^2 motor" and learn more about Dan Wiggin's patented motor structure. That was the selling ticket for me as I know him and his work from the old Adire Audio days. I still communicate with him with some other work.
Buy one of these and you certainly won't be disappointed. Be sure to prep the wife for a whole new listening experience. You may need an D attorney later.
Mike
I just think i did it right choosing the shack forum, after a year or so reading anonymous in diy forums.
Mike It should have been this way around with the sub, and i am glad to hear it, as larger objects are brought into resonance like windows and with this sub the walls and even the larger of all the mother earth under you yourself.
I know i should have posted that in a new thread but I found today something that worries me though, it is about the little brother of this one – the Maelstrom 18”, please take a look at that, the guy complains he bottoms it out easily when playing frequencies 20 to 30Hz
The link http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/exodus-audio/20266-7-6-cu-ft-maelstrom-x-18-build-9.html
And my comment on that issue was:
“
Dudes, on the bottoming out the sub ..
I have dayton reference sub Dayton RSS265HF-4 (and I know how this noise is being produced), to reach it I press the cone down with my bare hands to its suspension limits, but carefully and with old subs I reach that . With Hertz and Daytons I have, I do not reach that point at all, where voice coil former hits the pole piece. So sad for such a pumped with muscle sub
(No doubt dayton will reach its excur. limits earlier than the Maelstrom, but never with "nocking noise")
”
The whole here resembles old motor/ voice coil designs as i came across this issue with old subs long time ago. I still think the bottom limmiting factor of a sub cone excursion (as well the upper constraint) should be only the suspension, not the hit between the voice coil former and the pole piece. How do you think, guys is it a concern, ohh:doh: almost forgot this effect is captured on camera found it in youtube, here, notice what happends between second 39 and 41 (then the guy decreases the volume/power to it):
Mike It should have been this way around with the sub, and i am glad to hear it, as larger objects are brought into resonance like windows and with this sub the walls and even the larger of all the mother earth under you yourself.
I know i should have posted that in a new thread but I found today something that worries me though, it is about the little brother of this one – the Maelstrom 18”, please take a look at that, the guy complains he bottoms it out easily when playing frequencies 20 to 30Hz
The link http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/exodus-audio/20266-7-6-cu-ft-maelstrom-x-18-build-9.html
And my comment on that issue was:
“
Dudes, on the bottoming out the sub ..
I have dayton reference sub Dayton RSS265HF-4 (and I know how this noise is being produced), to reach it I press the cone down with my bare hands to its suspension limits, but carefully and with old subs I reach that . With Hertz and Daytons I have, I do not reach that point at all, where voice coil former hits the pole piece. So sad for such a pumped with muscle sub
(No doubt dayton will reach its excur. limits earlier than the Maelstrom, but never with "nocking noise")
”
The whole here resembles old motor/ voice coil designs as i came across this issue with old subs long time ago. I still think the bottom limmiting factor of a sub cone excursion (as well the upper constraint) should be only the suspension, not the hit between the voice coil former and the pole piece. How do you think, guys is it a concern, ohh:doh: almost forgot this effect is captured on camera found it in youtube, here, notice what happends between second 39 and 41 (then the guy decreases the volume/power to it):
That is not a hit between the former and the pole. It is the suspension running out usable throw and soft limiting.I just think i did it right choosing the shack forum, after a year or so reading anonymous in diy forums.
Mike It should have been this way around with the sub, and i am glad to hear it, as larger objects are brought into resonance like windows and with this sub the walls and even the larger of all the mother earth under you yourself.
I know i should have posted that in a new thread but I found today something that worries me though, it is about the little brother of this one – the Maelstrom 18”, please take a look at that, the guy complains he bottoms it out easily when playing frequencies 20 to 30Hz
The link http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/exodus-audio/20266-7-6-cu-ft-maelstrom-x-18-build-9.html
And my comment on that issue was:
“
Dudes, on the bottoming out the sub ..
I have dayton reference sub Dayton RSS265HF-4 (and I know how this noise is being produced), to reach it I press the cone down with my bare hands to its suspension limits, but carefully and with old subs I reach that . With Hertz and Daytons I have, I do not reach that point at all, where voice coil former hits the pole piece. So sad for such a pumped with muscle sub
(No doubt dayton will reach its excur. limits earlier than the Maelstrom, but never with "nocking noise")
”
The whole here resembles old motor/ voice coil designs as i came across this issue with old subs long time ago. I still think the bottom limmiting factor of a sub cone excursion (as well the upper constraint) should be only the suspension, not the hit between the voice coil former and the pole piece. How do you think, guys is it a concern, ohh:doh: almost forgot this effect is captured on camera found it in youtube, here, notice what happends between second 39 and 41 (then the guy decreases the volume/power to it):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIKfkzygw7Y&NR=1
Kevin Haskins
Exodus Audio
Veltiorian,
This demo vid is in free air without any cabinet suspension and appears to be reaching its suspension's travel capabilities due to excessive power. I noticed that the same test tone is also being played, unlike the real world use of the driver would see. I would never do that kind of testing with my drivers. Any driver would have issues being tested and treated this way with too much power.
I haven't had the need to push the limits of my 21" and it performs flawlessly at a high a SPL. All things in moderation and correct application applies to all drivers.
The suspension is very stiff and this design is capable of producing an enormous amount of bass without distortion with both of the 18" & 21" drivers utilizing the XBL2 motor and long throw suspension if used correctly.
My concert DVDs and movies are reproduced quite well and even as low as the impact scenes go, I've never bottomed out. I'm not selfish with my power either; just 2700 watts.
Mike
This demo vid is in free air without any cabinet suspension and appears to be reaching its suspension's travel capabilities due to excessive power. I noticed that the same test tone is also being played, unlike the real world use of the driver would see. I would never do that kind of testing with my drivers. Any driver would have issues being tested and treated this way with too much power.
I haven't had the need to push the limits of my 21" and it performs flawlessly at a high a SPL. All things in moderation and correct application applies to all drivers.
The suspension is very stiff and this design is capable of producing an enormous amount of bass without distortion with both of the 18" & 21" drivers utilizing the XBL2 motor and long throw suspension if used correctly.
My concert DVDs and movies are reproduced quite well and even as low as the impact scenes go, I've never bottomed out. I'm not selfish with my power either; just 2700 watts.
Mike
I beat the snot out of my 21" with movies, and pushed the limits to take some videos for the guys here, and the worst I got was a little wump-wump-wump sound of the suspension at 3Hz with an EP2400 maxed out. So it was difficult to get my sub to "make noise". Otherwise it's been a smooth beast that just seems to get better with age.
Free air with lots of power is a different story.
Free air with lots of power is a different story.
In a box, you need a massive amount of power to hit those limits. In most real-world conditions the power line is sagging at that point and amplifiers are not delivering full gusto.I beat the snot out of my 21" with movies, and pushed the limits to take some videos for the guys here, and the worst I got was a little wump-wump-wump sound of the suspension at 3Hz with an EP2400 maxed out. So it was difficult to get my sub to "make noise". Otherwise it's been a smooth beast that just seems to get better with age.
Free air with lots of power is a different story.
I should take a destructive testing video and post it up there. I beat them to death testing early production units and it is very entertaining. Most guys love to break things and I'm no different. I cringe as the things go whack-whack-whack-whack until something lets loose. I've been able to smack a back plate on a Shiva & Tempest once the suspension lets loose but I've never seen a Maelstrom either the 18" or 21" hit even in destructive testing.
Kevin Haskins
Exodus Audio
youve got my attention!I should take a destructive testing video and post it up there. I beat them to death testing early production units and it is very entertaining. Most guys love to break things and I'm no different. I cringe as the things go whack-whack-whack-whack until something lets loose. I've been able to smack a back plate on a Shiva & Tempest once the suspension lets loose but I've never seen a Maelstrom either the 18" or 21" hit even in destructive testing.
Kevin Haskins
Exodus Audio
To me all suspicions are gone it cant be otherwise after the inputs here, Maelstroms seem and are outstanding:T
Btw, do you know subs that compete in this class or even come close?
What i recall that's the XXX SERIES from reaudio and the 18inch specimen has Fs: 15.60 Hz, -Xmax: 54 mm !, 86.20 dB SPL at 2000W but costs three times the price of one Maelstrom-21"
Btw, do you know subs that compete in this class or even come close?
What i recall that's the XXX SERIES from reaudio and the 18inch specimen has Fs: 15.60 Hz, -Xmax: 54 mm !, 86.20 dB SPL at 2000W but costs three times the price of one Maelstrom-21"
Well the Maelstrom-X has an xmax of 66mm (p-p), tad higher fs, but a higher efficiency I think.To me all suspicions are gone it cant be otherwise after the inputs here, Maelstroms seem and are outstanding:T
Btw, do you know subs that compete in this class or even come close?
What i recall that's the XXX SERIES from reaudio and the 18inch specimen has Fs: 15.60 Hz, -Xmax: 54 mm !, 86.20 dB SPL at 2000W but costs three times the price of one Maelstrom-21"
Also, xbl^2!
the XXX is 108mm p-pWell the Maelstrom-X has an xmax of 66mm (p-p), tad higher fs, but a higher efficiency I think.
Also, xbl^2!
Yeah, at what distortion levels? Also, remember the price! 108mm p-p is quite extremethe XXX is 108mm p-p
you all just dont seem to grasp what the XXX is and has always been. try google. Xmax is Xmax. distortion is distortion. Quite frankly I dont get why everyone around here thinks so highly of the LMS 5400 or Ultra or any of that . For the price especially.
I just checked out their website. Couldn't find a price, but it seems to be a kickass woofer. There are no measurements though, whereas we have a lot of data on the Maelstrom-X.you all just dont seem to grasp what the XXX is and has always been. try google. Xmax is Xmax. distortion is distortion. Quite frankly I dont get why everyone around here thinks so highly of the LMS 5400 or Ultra or any of that . For the price especially.
Here is it, costs just too much :spend::
http://www.woofersetc.com/p4922/XXX18--RE-Audio-18"-XXX-Series-Dual-2-Ohm-Subwoofer.htm
and here the audiopulse
http://www.audiopulse.com/products/subwoofer-drivers/lms-ultra
So the questions on alternatives remain..:R
http://www.woofersetc.com/p4922/XXX18--RE-Audio-18"-XXX-Series-Dual-2-Ohm-Subwoofer.htm
and here the audiopulse
http://www.audiopulse.com/products/subwoofer-drivers/lms-ultra
So the questions on alternatives remain..:R
When I have the power off to my sub and while its still in the box, if I push in on the cone and let go immediately, the sub will bouce out and go kinda back and forth a little bit. It might bouce back and forth twice, but no more. I push the cone in about 15mm or so? Probably not even that much.The suspension is very stiff and this design is capable of producing an enormous amount of bass without distortion with both of the 18" & 21" drivers utilizing the XBL2 motor and long throw suspension if used correctly.
Kevin, is the suspension supposed to loosen up that much after running it for about 3 months at 150-200w, and about a month at 2,000w (at times)?
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