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Maelstrom power handling

3751 Views 21 Replies 8 Participants Last post by  Ryan Anderson, 
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Kevin, why is the power handling so high on these drivers? I know they are rated conservatively but can easily take 3000 watts when done so properly.

I didn't want to go OT and hijack smoggysky'a thread.
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sub_junkie
Ryan Anderson said:
why is the power handling so high on these drivers...
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Because Kevin and his subs are Awesome!! Why can the TC Sounds drivers handle 5,000w???
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R
cuz they cost too much
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R
another nonsense question that doesnt deserve yet another thread:

when I first stepped back onto the scene over a year ago, I was watching the IB3 18's and the Maelstrom-X's... they were being modeled a lot for IB. The IB3 being much cheaper, but the MX having a bit more Xmax, a lot more Xmech, and a lower Fs. I haven't seen or heard of them being used at all in IB. I am confused at them even being considered though, as I have gathered you need low BL (low Qts?) for IB, and that large motors will have big humps and nasty peaks. The MX seems beefy? So what gives?
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In general, I thought the idea with IB was to have a driver with Qts between 0.5 and 0.8 - because, in essence, an IB is a sealed box of extraordinary size, the system Q is the same as the driver Qts.

Electronic equalisation could sort it out, but I would have thought the underdamped cone could be an issue.
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theSeekerr said:
In general, I thought the idea with IB was to have a driver with Qts between 0.5 and 0.8 - because, in essence, an IB is a sealed box of extraordinary size, the system Q is the same as the driver Qts.

Electronic equalisation could sort it out, but I would have thought the underdamped cone could be an issue.
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the 18 being .37, that is lower than the .5 specified..but to me that would be optimal if that becomes system Q.... but I would have thought a larger motor raises Qts... I think Scott told me they actually shave the motor on the IB3 to lower Qts.
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K
Power Handling specs are pretty much meaningless. Check out my sticky on power handling for more details. I hate listing anything because it tends to just confuse users. They don't understand the context of how that specification would be measured and how that relates to their design and real world use.

In a nut shell. These devices are not typically power limited at the frequencies they are designed to operate. They are primarily mechanically limited but it depends on box alignment, test signal etc... I have people using >3000W amplifiers to drive Maelstrom builds.

In general, I recommend >2000W because that gives you plenty of headroom but it depends on the box, equalization and a number of variables. Also there are plenty of pro-amps with that kind of power and the cost is reasonable.

For perspective I've never had a burnt VC on a Maelstrom come back to me. I had one customer who claimed he smoked the coil in a very small heavily equalized sealed box. The problems that I see in the field are all mechanical limitations either to the suspension or someone having a rub or tinsel problem. They are not power handling issues.

Kevin Haskins
Exodus Audio
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Thanks for the reply Kevin. How about the IB thing, and the Qts thing? When I first got active here on the shack.. I'm pretty sure I saw many IB3 18 vs MX vs driver xxx threads.... so back then I was under the distinct impression the MX work great in IB. Is this true? I mean really any driver can be used in any alignment.. of all people I know.. but is it "well suited"?
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Ryan Anderson said:
Thanks for the reply Kevin. How about the IB thing, and the Qts thing? When I first got active here on the shack.. I'm pretty sure I saw many IB3 18 vs MX vs driver xxx threads.... so back then I was under the distinct impression the MX work great in IB. Is this true? I mean really any driver can be used in any alignment.. of all people I know.. but is it "well suited"?
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You can very easily find out yourself; model them in big sealed boxes (9999L or whatever), see what their max SPL is within the excursion limits, and how much power is needed to get there.
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fackamato said:
You can very easily find out yourself; model them in big sealed boxes (9999L or whatever), see what their max SPL is within the excursion limits, and how much power is needed to get there.
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already workin on it! but I find only 999 works, one more 9 and it goes to... no good. Another thing that bothers me, drivers without Le maybe? When responce looks flat on the high end.

Anyway, I see the Qtc hump or whatever... IB3 appears much more optimal so far just under fr curve...I'll do excursion next and spl.
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I doubt I do HP the right way, and powering I know I did "wrong"...

yellow IB3 default closed 154 cu ft 1000 watts ( it can thermally take it, especially free air...the 550 watts is a mechanical rating only) 20Hz HP

red IB3 999 cu ft 1000 watts 20Hz HP

green MX default 4.5 cu ft 3000 watts 12Hz HP
blue MX 999 cu ft 2800 watts 20Hz HP


I know I do it all messed up...anyone who wants to do it "proper" more than welcome.
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Just another thought. A single 18" maesltrom ported sub tuned to 18hz with 2500 watts rms in a 16 cu ft box.

HPF at 15hz gives 122db at 20hz. Could you imagine what two of these would sound like. Yulks.

Ive tried various sealed subs in winisd whether it be really small, moderate or large it just never comes close to a reasonable sized ported sub.




cheers

Graham

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Graham my buddy, hop on topic with me a sec and tell me what you know about Qts. I have Xmax, Xmech, Xlim, Xsus, Xmag, Vas, Fs, Re.... pretty well figured in my head. I don't fully grasp Qms, Qts, and Qes. I also get Mms and compliance. Iffy iffy on Le.
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Ryan

My knowledge on TS parameters is pretty basic to be honest. Still learning. I understand that with my FI Q drivers have a higher qts than the maelstroms and a higher FS. Thus the reason why I cannot get the Q's to go in a small box with a low QTC which is what makes the maelstroms perfect for small enclosures and the ability to throw more power at it.

The Q's need a 28 cu ft box to get a 0.7 qtc where as the maelstroms only need about a 5 cu ft box.

In a 12 cu ft ported sub tuned to 18hz the Q's gain slightly more below 15hz but loose to the maelstroms between 15hz and 25hz. But then the Q's then gain from 25hz onwards. The higher qts I guess is what is causing the Q's to gain more in the upper bass range which is the same effect the high qts has on the sealed version of the Q's which gives it a better upper bass than lower bass, higher qtc.

The maelstroms are a perfect all rounder in my opinion.

cheers

Graham
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I guess since I understood Fs but not Qts, I've simply looked for low Fs drivers to get a lower bottom end FR. I need to read and read some more Qms/Qes/Qts. So does the Q have a larger motor, larger Bl than the MX?
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M
but I find only 999 works,
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100000 will work.
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is there something with 9's then? lol...cuz I watch for it every time... and it varies with different drivers I think if it's the 3rd 4th or 5th 9...just weird!
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Drizt
That 4.5 cubic feet one looks about right from what I remember of the modelling of my subs. about 120dB most places and about 8dB down at 20Hz.
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Drizt
If I had the space thats what I would have done :)

Small sealed subs are great for allowing a variety of placements. You don't get locked in to only a couple spots where they can possibly go.

gperkins_1973 said:
Just another thought. A single 18" maesltrom ported sub tuned to 18hz with 2500 watts rms in a 16 cu ft box.

HPF at 15hz gives 122db at 20hz. Could you imagine what two of these would sound like. Yulks.

Ive tried various sealed subs in winisd whether it be really small, moderate or large it just never comes close to a reasonable sized ported sub.




cheers

Graham
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gperkins_1973 said:
Just another thought. A single 18" maesltrom ported sub tuned to 18hz with 2500 watts rms in a 16 cu ft box.

HPF at 15hz gives 122db at 20hz. Could you imagine what two of these would sound like. Yulks.

Ive tried various sealed subs in winisd whether it be really small, moderate or large it just never comes close to a reasonable sized ported sub.




cheers

Graham
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A single 21" Maelstrom ported sub tuned to 15Hz with 1600 watts rms in a 123 cu ft box.

HPF at 14Hz gives 121dB at 20Hz. 125dB at 15Hz. I'm trying to imagine what two of these are gonna sound like. YULKS!

sealed is MEH!

:D Cheerio bro!
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