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Discussion Starter #201
Thanks for the recommendation. I'll see if I can track that down. I do have some Jazz, but I don't recall the bass lines in them being anything that stands out. Mostly Miles Davis stuff.
 

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when u first tried the 21 you were saying it didnt seem to "connect with the room" or "couple with the air" the same as the horn, or something to that effect. Do you still feel that way?
 

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Discussion Starter #203
when u first tried the 21 you were saying it didnt seem to "connect with the room" or "couple with the air" the same as the horn, or something to that effect. Do you still feel that way?
Well, the 21" is flatter than my horn was. My horn had a few peaks in the FR. The 21" seems to hit the floor harder, but the air less.

SteveC says that I have to rethink what good bass is, and I'm keeping an open mind to that. I feel there is something different going on, horn vs 21", and I feel they both have something the other doesn't. But I can't put my finger on what the horn had.

And seriously, it could have just been a peak in the FR.
 

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Well, the 21" is flatter than my horn was. My horn had a few peaks in the FR. The 21" seems to hit the floor harder, but the air less.

SteveC says that I have to rethink what good bass is, and I'm keeping an open mind to that. I feel there is something different going on, horn vs 21", and I feel they both have something the other doesn't. But I can't put my finger on what the horn had.

And seriously, it could have just been a peak in the FR.
get another 21 and 2 __PM me __ and figure it out, nail it down!
 

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Discussion Starter #205
get another 21 and 2 __PM me __ and figure it out, nail it down!
I would need the horn and the 21" in the same room again, but I sold the horn the day before the 21" box was completed. So no go there.

I'd love to try one of the new horn builds that everyone is going nuts about over on AVS. I've been into horns for 10+ years now I couldn't get anyone to take them seriously...now I'm getting out of them for this huge 21" stroker, and everyone else is getting INTO them.
 

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I feel there is something different going on, horn vs 21", and I feel they both have something the other doesn't. But I can't put my finger on what the horn had.
More headroom above 25Hz for the horn vs. more air movement below 25Hz for the big driver? This seems to be the concensus among those who have changed over from LLT to a horn recently.

The more honest will say that there is something missing at the bottom end when they switch over to a horn sub.
 

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I would need the horn and the 21" in the same room again, but I sold the horn the day before the 21" box was completed. So no go there.

I'd love to try one of the new horn builds that everyone is going nuts about over on AVS. I've been into horns for 10+ years now I couldn't get anyone to take them seriously...now I'm getting out of them for this huge 21" stroker, and everyone else is getting INTO them.
You can get get a horn like sound by simply raising your subsonic filter to 25hz or so. That will let you crank the sub more in the upper regions.

The flaw in the LLT design paradigm is you sacrifice headroom for extension. This doesn't mean an LLT is bad, but it is the price you pay on the chase for extension. I personally prefer headroom over subsonic bass. You may be of the same convictions. If so I'd be happy to help you turn the maelstrom into meeting your own desires. We all have different preferences. There is nothing wrong with liking something different.

If you like the building part of this it gives you a chance to build a ported Maelstrom.:R
 

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I would need the horn and the 21" in the same room again, but I sold the horn the day before the 21" box was completed. So no go there.

I'd love to try one of the new horn builds that everyone is going nuts about over on AVS. I've been into horns for 10+ years now I couldn't get anyone to take them seriously...now I'm getting out of them for this huge 21" stroker, and everyone else is getting INTO them.
I wasn't reffering to your old horn ;) the really big one on the 4um of which you speak ;)

More headroom above 25Hz for the horn vs. more air movement below 25Hz for the big driver? This seems to be the concensus among those who have changed over from LLT to a horn recently.

The more honest will say that there is something missing at the bottom end when they switch over to a horn sub.


which is why I stopped following them a while back, though I was spending HOURS every night keeping up. I'd rather add more huge LLTs to make up on the high end, 25Hz on up... but I have a feeling I'm going to drive a lot of people nuts when I get my subs/amps/crossovers/receiver cuz I'll probably use 3 EQ cuts, 1 centered at 45Hz, 1 at 35 or 40, and another at 50 or 55 to really get 45 out and give it a little width so that I get a LOT of subsonics and a lot of reallt high stuff.... but with 2 21's in a total of 256 cubic feet, I'll still have more 25Hz-65Hz than I'll ever need. But I'll fight that uphill battle when I get there.
 

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I'll probably use 3 EQ cuts, 1 centered at 45Hz, 1 at 35 or 40, and another at 50 or 55 to really get 45 out and give it a little width so that I get a LOT of subsonics and a lot of reallt high stuff.... but with 2 21's in a total of 256 cubic feet, I'll still have more 25Hz-65Hz than I'll ever need. But I'll fight that uphill battle when I get there.
Why do all of the cutting when you can just lower the crossover on your receiver/eq unit? Depending on the movies, I usually crossover at 40hz for movies, and 60hz for music. My receiver doesn't seem to cut it quite enough at the set frequency though, so the higher effects are still let through.
 

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Well Raven, I'm embarrassed. I thought you gave discussion of a 2nd 21" or adding some more woofers...but I skimmed back and I can't find any talk on it. I'm at a loss.

As for good luck on the build, I was kind of sort of poking fun at the above comments that gave the impression the build is still in progress. Last laughs on me!
 

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Discussion Starter #215
How about a little update after a couple months of use.

I've gotten so used to this great bass, that it bothers me to go into some "high end" theaters and hear mush, or no bass at all (not sure which is worse really).

I had some friends over recently...these are really outdoorsy people, and aren't really into home theater type stuff. So here I am hosting a movie night, just playing some casual stuff, and everyones jaw dropped.

Oh, did I forget to mention I have a 21" sub with a kilowatt of power? My bad.

So then I throw in Terminator: Salvation and play the Gas Station scene. Yeah, they were impressed.

I'm still liking the idea of a second sub to help balance out the dips in the room, but I have to catch up on some bills before I start throwing money into the home theater again. Maybe for my birthday next November!
 

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How about a little update after a couple months of use.

I've gotten so used to this great bass, that it bothers me to go into some "high end" theaters and hear mush, or no bass at all (not sure which is worse really).

I had some friends over recently...these are really outdoorsy people, and aren't really into home theater type stuff. So here I am hosting a movie night, just playing some casual stuff, and everyones jaw dropped.

Oh, did I forget to mention I have a 21" sub with a kilowatt of power? My bad.

So then I throw in Terminator: Salvation and play the Gas Station scene. Yeah, they were impressed.

I'm still liking the idea of a second sub to help balance out the dips in the room, but I have to catch up on some bills before I start throwing money into the home theater again. Maybe for my birthday next November!
You do get a bit jaded after awhile. The commercial subs at local hifi shops seem like toys, the theaters sound like they are "trying" to have some representation of the bass content and you figure out "Hey, that must mean my set-up sounds purdy good". :T
 

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Discussion Starter #218
You do get a bit jaded after awhile. The commercial subs at local hifi shops seem like toys, the theaters sound like they are "trying" to have some representation of the bass content and you figure out "Hey, that must mean my set-up sounds purdy good". :T
I would like to find a theater in the Chicagoland area that is really "top of the line" and tuned by Sony or THX guys or something. I'd really like a solid example of what really great theater sounds like so I can go home and see where I stand.

That said, I'd consider the same thing for home theaters. I've been thinking that it would be great to have a rotating movie night with Chicagoland Shacksters. I think this would help us understand our theater strength and weaknesses better than even using REW (for those of us who trust our senses as much as measurements that is)
 

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How about the Field museum Imax? It has 4 TH50 Danley subs in it. Too bad they don't show blockbuster Ironman type movies there.
 
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