That is looking pretty good so far Pyrometman and nice work on this darker BW thus far and of course indeed Harpmaker also. :bigsmile:
I have no idea, and gain (which always means peak gain unless otherwise stated) is something that one simply CAN'T guess at with any accuracy, there are just too many variables that comprise it. I always have to laugh when I see someone making a big deal over one or two tenths of peak gain. Those values equate to a 10% and 20% change in peak image brightness, but few people realize that it takes at least a 33% brightness change for any real difference to become readily apparent to the human eye. 33.3% is the equivalent of 1/3 of an f-stop on a camera exposure. Very few cameras have finer settings than 1/3 f-stop and back in the day of film cameras the smallest variance was usually 1/2 f-stop (a 50% brightness change).What amount of gain would be expected of a darker black widow? I assume there are no measuements yet.
Welcome to HTS! :wave:I'm about to receive an Epson 8500ub, and I can only project it at 100" diagonal max, so I'm looking for something dark for the screen. Also, I have white/beige walls and ceiling, and some directional gain would probably be nice. So... is this "blacker widow" considered ready for prime time now? Could I hope to get less graininess from it in such light cannon mode (as compared to regular BW™)? Or should I just forget directional gain and go with OTS grey instead?
Sounds good! If you could get a small sample to Harp or I to measure that would be great as well!Not much interest/action on this thread in a while.
I got a rather amazing lesson in perception this weekend. I've been running a straight BW screen, but the surface prep was substandard so I knew it would eventually need to be re-done. I finally got around to starting 'round 2' this weekend, and started by painting my screen wall with the N5 mixture that I had originally gotten with the intent of trying BW6.4 - the intent was just to have a darker backdrop for the screen since it's been white up to now.
On a lark, I fired up the PJ and shot it at the N5 wall and was absolutely stunned at how well it performed. There is a definite mental discordance looking at a dark grey wall and seeing fairly bright whites and good colors coming off it. If this setup was movie-only in dim/dark conditions I might seriously consider staying this dark - the reduction in splash off the screen and resulting darker overall space was a big improvement in overall experience, but shadow detail didn't seem to suffer in my quickie test (first hour or so of LOTR - Fellowship, including the first encounter with the Rider in the woods). It didn't quite cut it for football where there was a fair bit of ambient light, though - not bad by any stretch, but didn't quite have the pop that we'd gotten used to for afternoon viewing.
So, my plan is to mix the remainder of the N5 with the remainder of the BW mixture I have and run with that. It won't be quite in the official/recommended BW6.4 proportions since I used a fair bit of the N5 to paint the screen wall, but it'll be substantially darker than standard BW.
I'll try to take a shot of the N5 screen along with the test board I have with stock BW, and I'll paint a section of that with my final mixture.
As a refresher, I'm using a Mits HC4000 on a rather small not-quite-constant-height screen (I zoom to switch aspect ratios). 16:9 is set to 34" high, 2.35:1 is set to 72" w. I haven't done the ft-l calcs, but even in low-lamp mode it's pretty bright.
I'm green with envy! Having those paint stores so close would be a dream; the closest store to me is 25 miles away (50 mile round trip). :gulp:Thanks Harp,
I'm a terrible lurker and realize that I need to give back to the internet every now and then. Besides living next to every paint store imaginable, I also live within 10 miles of two official AAA suppliers! Talk about convenience! Unfortunately both of them were out of Aluminum (Fine), so back to amazon I went. I ordered 16 ounces in case we want to try a second formulation of this.
I can see where this would bother you aesthetically, but the good news is that with the screen paint options promoted here a non-perfectly-flat screen should not matter during viewing.I built the fame and the screen this weekend and put 3 coats of a grey primer on it so that I could shoot an image while I wait for the AAA to arrive. Now it looks like one of my boards is bowing towards the center making the screen slightly convex. I will have to deal with that somehow.
For reference, the post where the N5 formula is given for a quart and the neutrality measured is here. Making a quart of paint from a tint formula for an 8 oz. sample means quadrupling the tint amounts since a quart is 4 times the volume.I copied the N5 measurements from somewhere else in the thread. I did not see a formula for the quart size, and I will admit my ignorance but is making a quart literally just doubling the amount of each pigment? Can you confirm what I should be asking for when I go the the Lowes counter so I don't screw it up?
Thanks for the offer, but no, I have those paints already. :TAlso, I know that you were looking to develop a single color that you could mix with the AAA to achieve BW 6.4. Would it be helpful to receive a sample of just the two base paints (BB and N5) mixed together?
Great to hear the new screen seems to be working to your satisfaction. It's a bit of a conundrum why your regular BW™ screen had a shimmer problem and the darker version doesn't. :scratch: :huh: FWIW, it has ben my experience that colors in low-component count mixes such as we advocate on this forum are fairly color-stable after 12 hours of drying time, but it is still better to wait at least 24 hours before you do any real PJ calibration on them. The high-component count mixes advocated on another forum may not stabilize for up to a week, and will still continue to slowly yellow due to their polyurethane content.Thanks for the update.
I received the AAA earlier than anticipated yesterday, so I headed to Lowes and picked up the base paints. I used a 2:2:1 ratio to mix a quart of paint and used a 3/16 nap roller to lay on two coats with a couple hours separating them.
I put on the wall and used the AVS calibration videos to dial in the brightness and contrast. I am very impressed. The screen seems very neutral to me, no obvious issues with color push in any direction; and my blacks have never been better. Also no graininess or sparkling 12 hours in. In fact this looks much better than the original black widow application. That screen always has a 'shimmer' to it; I just expected that it was supposed to be that way! I can definitely see the aluminum working on an all white field but it doesn't seem to be obvious every time there is a solid blue sky.
Any family-friendly images you want to post would be fine. It's hard to tell anything about screen performance from taking photos of a single screen, but we here at HTS like "eye candy" as much as the next forum. To really get a handle on screen attributes it take a comparison image so we can see at least an "A/B" image of two screens reflecting the same image at the same time. That is when images like color or contrast bars are useful.I will post some photos this evening. Any screens shots or patterns preferred? I know how to work a camera so if you have any pointers on grabbing the right exposure, I would be happy to take them.