Home Theater Forum and Systems banner

81 - 100 of 104 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
14,914 Posts
ame as the old.
Harp or Mech, have either of you done close up comparisons (microscope) to see if there might be a difference?
Keep an eye on the BW Ultra™ development thread. I'm just waiting on a rainy day off to get some of this stuff done.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
First off, thanks to all of you posting helpful information to these boards! I am learning a lot thanks to your efforts and contributions.

I am hoping to get some help in reproducing the darker version of Black Widow here in Switzerland. I am dealing with significant ambient light in my media room, and hope this paint will help. I have access to a paint sprayer, and a half liter of AAA-F... so I guess I am half way there.:D

I have an Optoma HD67 and currently project a 230cm diagonal picture on a white wall. I had been considering purchasing Screen Goo or similar product, but local availability and price changed my mind. I recently came across a thread about Black Widow and decided to give it a try. My AAA-F shipped from the UK today, and I am very interested to hear if anyone can advise on what to buy as a mix.

I dont know a great deal about the technical measurements of paints, so if there was a way to describe to my local paint shop exactly what I need, that would be super helpful. Any tips or suggestions greatly appreciated.

:help:
Thanks!
 

·
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
3,772 Posts
Discussion Starter #83
First off, thanks to all of you posting helpful information to these boards! I am learning a lot thanks to your efforts and contributions.

I am hoping to get some help in reproducing the darker version of Black Widow here in Switzerland. I am dealing with significant ambient light in my media room, and hope this paint will help. I have access to a paint sprayer, and a half liter of AAA-F... so I guess I am half way there.:D

I have an Optoma HD67 and currently project a 230cm diagonal picture on a white wall. I had been considering purchasing Screen Goo or similar product, but local availability and price changed my mind. I recently came across a thread about Black Widow and decided to give it a try. My AAA-F shipped from the UK today, and I am very interested to hear if anyone can advise on what to buy as a mix.

I dont know a great deal about the technical measurements of paints, so if there was a way to describe to my local paint shop exactly what I need, that would be super helpful. Any tips or suggestions greatly appreciated.

:help:
Thanks!
Hello, welcome to the forum! :wave:

The base paint you use will be determined by the lot number of the AAA-F you purchased, it will be on the label close to the bar code. Can you get paint in NCS or RAL colors? These are color tinting systems used in England and Germany.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Thanks!

I forgot to mention that I will get the new formula of AAA-F... I had them email me the serial number: WDND08-90BS(1).

I am pretty sure I can get the RAL colors here in Switzerland, worst case I will be in Germany this weekend and can stop and get the paint there.

I had planned to do something about the ambient light... but I recently squashed a bug on my wall (beaming surface), and he took some paint with him :eek: so the ambient light became secondary to the missing paint on my screen and stepped up the timeline on this project!
 

·
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
3,772 Posts
Discussion Starter #85
Thanks!

I forgot to mention that I will get the new formula of AAA-F... I had them email me the serial number: WDND08-90BS(1).

I am pretty sure I can get the RAL colors here in Switzerland, worst case I will be in Germany this weekend and can stop and get the paint there.

I had planned to do something about the ambient light... but I recently squashed a bug on my wall (beaming surface), and he took some paint with him :eek: so the ambient light became secondary to the missing paint on my screen and stepped up the timeline on this project!
To get a mix very much like (actually identical to the naked eye) the BW™N6.4 originally developed at the beginning of this thread you would get a very low gloss water-based paint in the RAL color 7045 'Telegrey 1' and add the new AAA-F in the ratio 4 parts gray paint to 1 part AAA-F. Be sure to stir well and make sure the AAA-F is evenly dispersed into the gray paint.

For interest, here is a webpage that lists the RAL paint colors and codes, their names in a number of languages, and even the RGB values of the colors. :T

http://www.ralcolor.com/
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Thank you so much Harpmaker! I was in Germany this weekend and the Obi shop had a computerized system to automatically blend and mix the exact color as I waited. I expect delivery of the AAA-F early this week, and plan to spray this coming weekend. The weather should be around 70 with low humidity... do you think I can do a coat in the morning and another in the evening?

I really had no idea what paint to use, and was ready to just go with the standard BW... so thanks again!
 

·
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
3,772 Posts
Discussion Starter #87
Thank you so much Harpmaker! I was in Germany this weekend and the Obi shop had a computerized system to automatically blend and mix the exact color as I waited. I expect delivery of the AAA-F early this week, and plan to spray this coming weekend. The weather should be around 70 with low humidity... do you think I can do a coat in the morning and another in the evening?
I assume you are rolling your paint and not spraying. When rolling, I would have to say to go by the directions on the can of gray base paint (it's 80% of the mix). When rolling, the first coat of paint NEEDS to be dried very well or it can literally peel off the wall and stick to the roller when doing the second coat!

I really had no idea what paint to use, and was ready to just go with the standard BW... so thanks again!
Glad to be of help. :T
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
directions say that it will dry in 4-6 hours, next coat after 8 hours... so it should work out :T

I had planned to spray... does that change anything?
 

·
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
3,772 Posts
Discussion Starter #89
directions say that it will dry in 4-6 hours, next coat after 8 hours... so it should work out :T

I had planned to spray... does that change anything?
In my experience yes. When spraying you usually don't get a solid uninterrupted layer of paint on the screen, but rather a lot of small droplets that may or may not run together; because of this it usually takes 2 or 3 "coats" of sprayed paint to equal the amount of paint that can be rolled on in one coat. The good news is because the sprayed coats are so much thinner than a rolled coat they dry a LOT faster. I find that a sprayed coat dries to the touch in about 10 to 20 minutes depending on humidity and temperature so more coats can be applied in a given amount of time compared to rolling. Another plus when spraying is that you DON'T have to wait 4 to 6 hours before applying another coat of paint because there is no roller that will try to lift the previous coat so it only needs to be dry to the touch and not truly dry.

When spraying the screen be SURE to use an HVLP or LVLP gun and not an airless sprayer or a "conventional" spray gun. The last two guns work at high pressure and they get paint on EVERYTHING in the room including you. The first two types of guns work at low pressure and there is little "blow-back" from paint striking the screen and literally bouncing off and going into the air.

Typically you also have to thin interior house paints between 20 and 30% with distilled water to get them thin enough so the spray gun will shoot them as small droplets instead of large drops that spit and sputter and don't cover well. Black Widow Ultra™ must be thinned in a similar manner.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
So... my friend rocked up with a compressor and paint sprayer and we got to work. I had prepared the wall with fine sandpaper, and sectioned off the room with plastic and papered the ceiling. The AAA-F arrived on Thursday, so it all come together perfectly. :sn:

The test panel looked really good, so we didn't bother thinning out the paint. The result is very impressive... as another forum member wrote, it is hard to imagine such bright whites showing up on a dark grey wall!

The only thing I notice is that the finished surface is a bit textured... seems to me like it would be a magnet for dust. Is the surface supposed to be a bit rough? Did we maybe spray too much paint on there, or is it possible to buff the surface?

All in all a very successful project! Thanks to Harpmaker for the specific paint color instructions, and to all of you who invested time testing and giving feedback. :clap:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
So... my friend rocked up with a compressor and paint sprayer and we got to work. I had prepared the wall with fine sandpaper, and sectioned off the room with plastic and papered the ceiling. The AAA-F arrived on Thursday, so it all come together perfectly. :sn:

The test panel looked really good, so we didn't bother thinning out the paint. The result is very impressive... as another forum member wrote, it is hard to imagine such bright whites showing up on a dark grey wall!

The only thing I notice is that the finished surface is a bit textured... seems to me like it would be a magnet for dust. Is the surface supposed to be a bit rough? Did we maybe spray too much paint on there, or is it possible to buff the surface?

All in all a very successful project! Thanks to Harpmaker for the specific paint color instructions, and to all of you who invested time testing and giving feedback. :clap:
Here are some pics of the project... thanks again guys!

 

·
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
3,772 Posts
Discussion Starter #92
So... my friend rocked up with a compressor and paint sprayer and we got to work. I had prepared the wall with fine sandpaper, and sectioned off the room with plastic and papered the ceiling. The AAA-F arrived on Thursday, so it all come together perfectly. :sn:

The test panel looked really good, so we didn't bother thinning out the paint. The result is very impressive... as another forum member wrote, it is hard to imagine such bright whites showing up on a dark grey wall!

The only thing I notice is that the finished surface is a bit textured... seems to me like it would be a magnet for dust. Is the surface supposed to be a bit rough? Did we maybe spray too much paint on there, or is it possible to buff the surface?

All in all a very successful project! Thanks to Harpmaker for the specific paint color instructions, and to all of you who invested time testing and giving feedback. :clap:
What exactly do you mean by textured? If the paint was a bit too dry, or the spraying distance from the gun tip to the screen was a bit too far, the paint could have dried a bit before hitting the screen which can cause a finish that feels a bit like fine sandpaper. The only fix for that is to spray another coat on it that contains a bit more water or spray closer to the screen. The finish coat of paint CANNOT be buffed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
Hi Harp,

Sorry to resurrect an old thread. I'd like to try this mix out and was wondering with Glidden color would I use for the base, "icon grey" or "seal grey"? My last BW mix used "granite grey" as the base color but I'd like to go darker if I can and since this older BW N6.4 formula has been tested I'd like to give it a shot.

Thanks!
 

·
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
3,772 Posts
Discussion Starter #94
Hi Harp,

Sorry to resurrect an old thread. I'd like to try this mix out and was wondering with Glidden color would I use for the base, "icon grey" or "seal grey"? My last BW mix used "granite grey" as the base color but I'd like to go darker if I can and since this older BW N6.4 formula has been tested I'd like to give it a shot.

Thanks!
No Problem on bringing up an old thread! :T

I assume you are using the new AAA-F since that is very important to getting a neutral gray with the Black Widow Ultra™ mixes.

If you want to get as close to the N6.4 BW™ variant then use the 'Icon Gray' as a base. I think the 'Seal Gray' would produce a mix around N6.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
Thanks Harp! I'll try the icon grey then. Have you ever tested an N6 BW mix? I got the 32oz AAA so I'll have plenty left and will probably do a test panel with the seal grey as a base. I've read in some of your posts that the darker you go the more likely you are to get sparkles from the AAA. What's the darkest you've tested before running into that problem or a strong blue push? Also,would the N6 formula you posted earlier in the thread with the current valspar ultra paints?

Thanks again.
 

·
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
3,772 Posts
Discussion Starter #96
Thanks Harp! I'll try the icon grey then. Have you ever tested an N6 BW mix? I got the 32oz AAA so I'll have plenty left and will probably do a test panel with the seal grey as a base. I've read in some of your posts that the darker you go the more likely you are to get sparkles from the AAA. What's the darkest you've tested before running into that problem or a strong blue push? Also,would the N6 formula you posted earlier in the thread with the current valspar ultra paints?
It's very odd (and a bit embarrassing), but both Mech and I have had very little time (for different reasons) to put toward testing the new Black Widow Ultra™ mixes for over a year!

The testing I did do has shown that the new AAA-F has a MUCH reduced chance of adding any sparkles to the final mix compared to the old version.

Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean by the N6 formula I posted. Do you mean the N6.4 mix that started this thread?

Your best bet at this time is to use the Valspar Signature interior paint in matte finish. This has the same gloss finish as the old Valspar Ultra Premium in flat enamel finish. Valspar has been having fun changing the name of this old paint; first the name stayed the same, but the 'flat enamel' finish was changed to the 'super flat' finish (it was the exact gloss level as the 'flat enamel' finish). They then changed the paint name from Ultra Premium to just Ultra and for awhile this paint was available in both the 'flat enamel' and 'super flat' finishes depending on what store you went to. It was crazy! :unbelievable: I'm not sure what finishes are currently available in the Ultra paint; it's just so much easier to get the Valspar Signature in matte finish.

As for making an even darker BWU™ mix, I have made some sample to test for color just using an N5 paint and the new AAA-F in ratios of 4:1, 2:1 and even 1:1 and the results have been quite neutral and NO sparkles have been detected except with a magnifying glass. I cannot say how the mixes with more AAA-F in them would work under projection as I haven't done that yet, but I would say they look promising. :bigsmile:

Thanks again.
You are very welcome!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
A wealth of information as always! I'm definitely looking for the darkest paint mix I can get. If you have any tint codes for an N6 or N5 with the AAA included I'll be happy to send you a sample. I an using the new AAA and got the big 32oz bottle (I already went through 4 of the 4oz ones trying out different versions of BW ultra) so I have at least 4 screens worth to experiment with. With the long weekend here in the states I'm hoping to get at least a few test panels done. Any recommendations on the ratios of base pait to AAA? Thanks again for the quick responses!I
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
14,914 Posts

·
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
3,772 Posts
Discussion Starter #99
A wealth of information as always! I'm definitely looking for the darkest paint mix I can get. If you have any tint codes for an N6 or N5 with the AAA included I'll be happy to send you a sample. I an using the new AAA and got the big 32oz bottle (I already went through 4 of the 4oz ones trying out different versions of BW ultra) so I have at least 4 screens worth to experiment with. With the long weekend here in the states I'm hoping to get at least a few test panels done. Any recommendations on the ratios of base pait to AAA? Thanks again for the quick responses!I
The darkest BWU™ mixes we have even minimally tested are made with an N5 base paint. Below are the RGB and LAB values for the mixes. These are even darker than the Stewart FireHawk screens. ;)

N5/AAA-F 4:1 (this has been the standard ratio used for the various BW™ mixes).
RGB 124.3 , 123.5, 123.0
LAB 51.87, 0.26, 0.32 [N5.2]

N5/AAA-F 2:1 (2 parts N5 base to 1 part AAA-F).
RGB 127.4, 126.1, 125.2
LAB 52.93, 0.32, 0.63 [N5.3]

N5/AAA-F 1:1 (equal parts N5 base and AAA-F).
RGB 134.0 , 132.6, 131.1
LAB 55.44, 0.28, 0.92 [N5.5]

I used a quart of Valspar Ultra with the following tint code:
For a quart:
Base C in 'Flat Enamel' or 'Matte' finish
101 - 41 (Lamp Black)
107 - 5 (Yellow Oxide)
109 - 3 (Red Oxide)
113 - 1Y44 (White)


This same tint code in a quart of Valspar Signature interior matte finish should work fine as well.

Keep in mind that this is the EXPERIMENTAL forum and these mixes are experimental and not ready for prime time yet. The more AAA-F you put into a mix the higher the gain will be, but this will increase the chance that the mix will have too small a viewing cone, or even hot spot.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
Awesome! Thanks a million! I know this is the development forum and that's why I'm here. I'm excited to see how the test panels with the N5 base turn out. Only way to get it to prime time is testing right :)?
 
81 - 100 of 104 Posts
Top