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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Since I've been experiencing problems with my Denon x4000 going into protection mode at random times either when playing music to all speakers at normal volumes for about 4-5 hrs or at times 2-3 hrs, i decided to check for shorts on the speaker wires.
At first I thought this was an overheating issue to I purchased two good size computer fans to help remove the heat from the shelf system and pull out of the back of the wall. This has helped but it still goes into protection mode at random times.
I unhooked everything from the receiver and started checking ohms to all speakers. The surround checked in at 4ohms, rear surrounds at 6 ohms, here is where i have may question for my front which are paradigm studio 100 v3 measured at 4 ohms and the center paradigm cc690 v4 measured at 8 ohms. Does the reading between my fronts and center seem accurate? I know the specs show up to 8 ohms but I wasn't sure that by default the center is at 8 and the 100's are at 4.

If you have any other suggestions about why my amp continues to go into protection mode please advise.
Could an HDMI cable short cause it to do this?
 

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I unhooked everything from the receiver and started checking ohms to all speakers. The surround checked in at 4ohms, rear surrounds at 6 ohms, here is where i have may question for my front which are paradigm studio 100 v3 measured at 4 ohms and the center paradigm cc690 v4 measured at 8 ohms. Does the reading between my fronts and center seem accurate? I know the specs show up to 8 ohms but I wasn't sure that by default the center is at 8 and the 100's are at 4.
How are you measuring impedance?
 

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Voltmeter
Ok, then you've measured the DC resistance, not the impedance. Loudspeaker impedance is not a single number, it varies with frequency. Unfortunately, manufacturers state it as a single number, usually "nominal", i.e., an average. Luckily for you, it appears Stereophile may have tested your model Paradigm ("Reference" Studio 100 v3):

As you can see, the impedance drops to almost 2 ohms at 100Hz, an area with typically a lot of energy content. That sort of impedance shown will give most AVRs fits, especially when run MCH and full ranged.

cheers
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
You are correct about giving my AVR some fits. I just did some more research about then denon x4000 being able to handle these 4ohms or less and I noticed that the answer was no. So look like my AVR will continue to go into protection mode because of my main speakers.

Do you agree?
 

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Yes.
You could try an experiment and select the LR speakers as "small", starting with a 60hz XO high pass, then play them for a couple hours at similar levels, i.e., try to replicate the conditions when it shut down. See if the same thing happens. Then try, 80, 100 etc. Yes, you'll have no bass for a bit, but I see you're considering subs.
Be careful of course, maybe do once per day as not to over stress the X4000.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Yes.
You could try an experiment and select the LR speakers as "small", starting with a 60hz XO high pass, then play them for a couple hours at similar levels, i.e., try to replicate the conditions when it shut down. See if the same thing happens. Then try, 80, 100 etc. Yes, you'll have no bass for a bit, but I see you're considering subs.
Be careful of course, maybe do once per day as not to over stress the X4000.
When i had a sub I ran them as small speakers at 80 and it was still happening then.
 

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Hi Bernch, I moved this thread here because I don't believe this is a service issue, but rather an impedance issue that would affect most AVRs. Might be informative to potential AVR buyers to be aware that severe speaker loads can cause issues like this.

cheers
 

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When i had a sub I ran them as small speakers at 80 and it was still happening then.
Well, you have a couple options.
Increase the XO to as high as possible on the AVR, flank each speaker with a sub capable of that high a XO.
Add an external stereo amp for the LR channels capable of driving that load. Inexpensive pro stuff like the Crown XLS1500 (Around $200) should have no issues.
I'm sure others will chime in also.

cheers
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Well, you have a couple options.
Increase the XO to as high as possible on the AVR, flank each speaker with a sub capable of that high a XO.
Add an external stereo amp for the LR channels capable of driving that load. Inexpensive pro stuff like the Crown XLS1500 (Around $200) should have no issues.
I'm sure others will chime in also.

cheers
Not sure what you're referring to when you say XO can you're elaborate as well when you say flank each speaker?
 

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XO = cross over

flank = place a sub near each front speaker a bit to the outside (IMHO you do not need two subs, one with the low frequency (LF) content routed to it should be sufficient).

However, AJ's recommendation on getting a separate external amp to handle 2 (or 3) of the channels makes the most sense to me.

Cheers,
XEagleDriver
 

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...Denon x4000
This AVR is rated 125 w/ch and will do this easily into 2 ch, will go down a bit into 7 ch but not that much.

...I purchased two good size computer fans to help remove the heat... ...This has helped
Have you measured the heat coming off this thing? Does it seem excessive? Should get warm, but not THAT warm... is there enough room around this thing for it to breathe adequately?

...paradigm studio 100 v3
These speakers are "compatible with 8 ohms", rated 15-325 W with a max power input recommended at 210 W and a sensitivity of 88 dB/2.83V/m. They should not be that difficult to drive. Your X4000 should have no problem with these speakers even at higher levels (-10 mV or higher) assuming crossovers are set respectably so as not to ask the Denon to work too hard trying to drive these mains much below 60 Hz.

Could an HDMI cable short cause it to do this?
HDMI will either do, or not do. There is no try. If the cable has a short, you'd likely have nothing but this isn't to say there isn't the ever so slight possibility of one wire with a problem within the cable - never heard of this happening but swap it out to be sure.

I'll go out on a limb here and suggest there may be a problem with the Denon. This AVR is a couple of years old now, assuming you got it when it came out in 2013. Normally I wouldn't suggest it'd have such a problem but as all complex electronic do-dads go; there's always the possibility this one might be on the blink a little early in its life.

If it's still under warranty, it may be worth a shot talking to Denon to see if anyone else has reported this issue. Of course when you tell them it runs hot (assuming this is the case), they should ask where you have it - in a rack with little or no space above or to the sides? Running it like this for an extended period will surely stress the electronics to the point they could fail prematurely.

Just a thought.

EDIT - Just read in your other post that you've had this problem for a while now, but I still hold that the specs for those Studio 100's, pretty much everywhere you look, read as if they'd be fairly easy to drive. Looking deeper I see several owners indicating "...they take a lot of power to run..." but I still contend that unless they truly are rated at 4 ohms, the X4000 shouldn't be having this much trouble driving them. Best of luck which ever way you decide to go.
 

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These speakers are "compatible with 8 ohms", rated 15-325 W with a max power input recommended at 210 W and a sensitivity of 88 dB/2.83V/m. They should not be that difficult to drive. Your X4000 should have no problem with these speakers even at higher levels (-10 mV or higher) assuming crossovers are set respectably so as not to ask the Denon to work too hard trying to drive these mains much below 60 Hz.
Yes, apparently "compatible with 8 Ohms" is the new rule at Paradigm marketing department. AJ's explanations and advices are the best you've got on this thread.
 

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Yes, apparently "compatible with 8 Ohms" is the new rule at Paradigm marketing department. AJ's explanations and advices are the best you've got on this thread.
I see that now - looking at the graph earlier in this thread; I had no idea these speakers were so power hungry - the published specs are rather deceiving.
 
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