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Discussion Starter #1
Hello.

This is my first post so lets see if I can get this right and maybe get pointed in the right
direction.

I have a Mitsubishi WS55819 which I purchased new in November 2001. We also purchased
a 5-yr Maint Contract through Phillips Priority Service.

Last year (2005) I had occasion to call for service due to a problem with the set either
failing to turn on at all or immediately shutting down if we switched the input selection to
YPrPb. The set had been doing this for several months before I finally called for service.

In any other mode or input selection there was no problem.

Symptoms:

From a "Cold Start" (after having been off an hour or longer) the set will not come on if
the previous viewer shut the set off while the YPrPb input was selected. It takes literally
about 50 presses of the on button (either remote or front of set) to get it to stay on. When
attempting to turn on the green power LED will come on for about 3 secs then immediately go
back off.

If you shut off the YPrPb input source material (HD sat receiver) the set may then come on a
few attempts sooner.

If the previous viewer had selected any other input besides YPrPb before turning the set
off, then it will immediately turn on and work fine provided you do not quickly
switch to the YPrPb input. If you switch to YPrPb before the set has been on at least 2 or
3 minutes the set will immediately shut down.

The error code is 2 blinks followed by 4 blinks.

When we sent the set (light box) in for service last year the servicer witnessed the failure
in the home and made a note on the service ticket about the shutdown and 2-4 error code. We
have a copy of that original service ticket (carbon) with those symptoms and notations
clearly readable.

However, the servicer stated that they were unable to dupe the problem in their shop and
finally brought it back not fixed after a period of about 3 weeks. They told us that
they suspected our YPrPb signal source as possibly overdriving the input.
That signal source was a Hughes Platinum HD model E86 satellite receiver.
Long story short, we grudgingly continued to put up with the problem.
Then last week we got a new satellite receiver. This was a DirecTV model H-20 which is new
and DirecTV's most current model.
The problem with shutdown from cold start on YPrPb continues.
Where do we go from here? Our 5 yr extended warranty will expire in November and we'd
really like to get this fixed.

Thanks!!
 

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Hi Bill and welcome to the Shack!

Man, that's a bummer when the service people can't get the problem to duplicate.

Leonard should be around soon, but in the meantime, I have a couple of questions for you.

Did the service center have the same receiver to test this with?

Is Phillips Priority Service aware that the dealer could not duplicate the problem?
 

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Hi Bill,

Welcome. Sounds like bad news. I hate when that kind of thing happens... Here's some stuff off the top of my head that might help...

Have you tried unplugging everything into the TV except for the DirecTV box? Does it still do it? Now, swap out that box for a DVD player, such that the DVD player is the only thing hooked up. Still do it?

And like Sonnie said -- not only did they have the same box to duplicate the problem, but did they have anything at all connected to the YPrPb input? Would it be possible for you to loan them your DirecTV box, or better yet, hang around the shop and demo the problem in person? Can they come to your house again to witness it there?

Did anything else conicide with the onslaught of this problem? Any other system changes, etc.?

Just some thoughts...
 

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OK, there are two angles here. First the problem. The 2-4 code is a vertical deflection failure. In other words, the set shut down and the micro recorded the reason as a loss of vertical deflection. If this only happens on HD sources, it is likely that the slightly higher scanning at 1080 as opposed to 960 for the other sources is causing the vertical amp to run closer to its limit.

Now the other angle, dealing witht he extended warranty company. Regardless, if the problem is intermittent, it is completely reasonable to replace the main circuit board which contains the vertical deflection circuit. Since that board is no longer available from Mitsubishi, the extended service company's service centers cannot fix the set and they need to replace it. You simply need to get the servicer to acknolwedge that the problem was documented as a 2-4 code and send all of the documentation to the company administering the warranty. They will likely want another opinion since the last guys said NTF (no trouble found) if you can't get them to state that there was a problem. Call Mitsubishi and get a list of all of the authorized servicers in your area. Call Philips and get a list from them. Find out who the most experienced Mits techs are on the list and get them to look at it. If the tech who is most likely able to fix it is not set up with Philips, ask if they will authorize them to look at the set.

Send me an email and we will communicate more on the details of how to handle it and I will track the issue. Houston should have lots of service options. Let me know who you have been using and who you get as Mits and Philips Warranty ASCs. I'll check them out for you.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Sonnie said:
Did the service center have the same receiver to test this with?

Is Phillips Priority Service aware that the dealer could not duplicate the problem?
I honestly don't know. We quickly got the opinion that the service center's heart just wasn't in this repair. Symptoms were clearly there and witnessed in the home. By keeping the light box almost 3 weeks as they did, they simply out-waited us. We wanted it back and I got the feeling they were sort of wanting us to just go away possibly because I had been calling them at least 3 times a week asking for status. I can't put my finger on what it was, but I got the distinct feeling our light box was of no importance to them and just sitting in the corner somewhere amid a pile of other nondescript hardware and the ASC had no incentive to pursue it. After all they were going to collect a guaranteed service fee from the warranty company whether they fixed it or not. Unfortunate, but we just really didn't get a warm-fuzzy feeling about the whole service experience. :(

For info the original servicer was APM Electronics in Houston.
The selling dealer was Home Theater Store divn of Videoland, Inc.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
lcaillo said:
Since that board is no longer available from Mitsubishi, the extended service company's service centers cannot fix the set and they need to replace it.
Arggggh! Sure not what I wanted to hear. Now makes me wish I'd been more aggressive about pursuing it with the original servicer APM Electronics of Houston last year. - How can some key component be "no longer available" only 5 years post-manufacture? I thought there was some ruling about an obligation to continue to provide support for "X" amount of time after manufacture-discontinuance. No parts. Swell.

Anyway, thanks for the info and I will now pursue this with a bit more tenacity, starting with a letter (certified mail) to the warranty company possibly with a .cc to Mitsu Consumer Affairs, the original selling dealer Home Theater Store div of Videoland and whomever else we can think of (including my attorney).

I will also keep you in the loop on this as the situation unfolds.

I have already contacted Phillips Priority Service by phone to open up a new claim. That claim nbr is 1528482 system model WS55819, s/n 110491. I asked and received Phillips' Customer Care mailing address and an "ATTN to:" so we're about to mount our attack.

Thanks again
Bill
 

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You need to do0cument every contact, get names, write down notes, get commitments for action and escalate to the nest level if someone can't anser a question with a reasonable plan of action.

There is no federal requirement for any company to have parts available for anything. Some states have specific laws, but for the most part venfors can do what ever they can get away with. It is common these days for parts to NOT be available at all for out of warranty repairs and then only to factory service centers. Mitsubishi has been pretty good about supporting their products and I have actually had them replace sets this old for a nominal upgrade fee when catastrophic problems occurred and parts were not available. Your service contract certainly has a provision for replacing the set if it can't be fixed.

Most of these are repaired at the component level, not by replacing the entire board. Because your set has had a deflection problem documented and cannot be efficiently duplicated, there should be no problem concluding that the only reasonable repair would be to replace the board. Since it is NLA, Philips needs to replace the set. You just need a servicer who is interested in solving problems, not just collecting $ and avoiding the tough ones.

Like I said, get a list of servicers and I'll check them out for you and see if anyone has experience with them.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks Leonard.

Well, the ball is in motion. I have begun a journal of documenting things this go-around and have input all notes from the prior repair attempt in 2005, incl. a photocopy of the original repair ticket with failure codes noted thereon. Obviously I know I need to keep the original.

I rec'd a phone call at 10:17A this morning from Home Theater Store main Houston location and service ctr. (6808 Hornwood Dr. tel 713-772-6200 ext 2208). Apparently Phillips Priority Svc. has given HTS the nod to take a look at this. The service tech (Sal) is supposed to come out tomorrow and call me sometime between 8~9AM tomorrow to set up a time.

When I spoke to Phillips on Satd'y to open up this new ticket I told them I felt like we had a bad experience last time with APM and if possible not to use them this time. Looks like they got the message.

Can you tell me what is the pushbutton sequence to get the set to display the shutdown flash codes? I had it at one time but cannot locate that info. Thanks.
 

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When the set is in shutdown, press Menu and Device simultaneously for 5 seconds. This will only report a code if the set is in shutdown, i.e. it started or tried to start and then shut down. Once the power is interupted or the set is started the code is lost.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Update 8/7/06:

The Home Theater Store repair dept. has pronounced the set dead and states that it needs a signal board and a main board, both of which are not available from MITS.

They are presently checking with 2 refurb shops to see what they have available.

Once they have that info they will get back to Phillips Priority Service to see which way Phillips wants to go, up to and including product replacement.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Sonnie said:
Great... sounds like you might be on the road to getting a replacement.
At this point I think replacement would be prerferable to refurb parts. Gosh only knows what the prior history of those boards might be, could be pullouts from lightning damage or worse. I'm hoping they want to make an offer.

That said, I wonder what a fair offer is on a warranty replacement of a 5 year old set.
 

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They will not find those boards rebuild, I am almost certain. What does your contract say about replacement?
 
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If you're getting a new set then, good for you BUT, this kind of shotgunning is what's given our profession a bad name for years. No way no how was it the signal board. I'd almost guarantee that if they'd resoldered the yoke plugs, you'd have been watching tv that night but, now we'll never know because they didn't send out a real technician. Pardon sounding bitter as it's not aimed at you the end user. It was just one more step towards rendering our talent and knowledge useless. If they replace the set and leave the old one with you, let me know. I'll buy it from. I'm only 120 miles from you and I'd love to have a Mits of that vintage.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
lcaillo said:
They will not find those boards rebuild, I am almost certain. What does your contract say about replacement?
The contract clearly and unambiguously states repair or replace, but not to exceed the original purchase price. I'm not sure if that means cumulative though, as APM Electronics already wasted one turn at bat and I know their std pickup & dely charge was $250 plus 3 hrs @$90/hr bench time to do nothing, so God only knows how deep into this the warranty company already is. Do these warranty companies reimburse at prevailing shop rates or is it like the Dr's office where you do warranty work as a necessary evil and have to settle for only 25 or 50 cents on the dollar?

I also find it interesting how APM kept the light box for almost 3 weeks and never found anything wrong and Home Theater Store was able to dupe the problem immediately and repeatedly. In both cases their techs saw the problem demonstrated in the home before taking the LB.

1) Now that we're waiting for a decision, how often should I be calling (pestering) for status updates?

2) Do I need to also be contacting (twisting any arms at) the warranty company?

3) If or when replacement is offered, what can (or should) I expect that to take the form of? Cash settlement or physical replacement? If cash, what's fair? (we paid $2799 in Dec 2001 and have the receipt)

4) If a replacement is offered, would it be new/equivalent model or???

5) DLP ???

Thanks.
Bill
 

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These are questions that need to be asked of the company that the contract is with. There is no way that we can answer them for you. Decide for yourself what would be an adequate replacement using the retail prices of new units and negotiate with that in mind.
 

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Techdata said:
If you're getting a new set then, good for you BUT, this kind of shotgunning is what's given our profession a bad name for years. No way no how was it the signal board. I'd almost guarantee that if they'd resoldered the yoke plugs, you'd have been watching tv that night but, now we'll never know because they didn't send out a real technician. Pardon sounding bitter as it's not aimed at you the end user. It was just one more step towards rendering our talent and knowledge useless. If they replace the set and leave the old one with you, let me know. I'll buy it from. I'm only 120 miles from you and I'd love to have a Mits of that vintage.
Steve, I agree, but in this forum we are simply trying to help members deal with the specific problems that they face in the best way possible. The fact is, as you know, that there are lots of players in our businessBTW, that drive you sent me is working fine.
 

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...players in our business that don't do things the way you and I do them.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
UPDATE AND NEWS

I heard from the Home Theater Store svc dept twice today (Aug 8) once when I called them at 4:50 PM to inquire as to status and then again at 5:27 PM when they called me back with even later info than that provided at 4:50P

At 4:50P the news was that they had located a component level repair shop (PTS - never heard of them) who said they could repair the boards and provide a 12 mo warranty. Total estimated costs $1000~$1100 including HTS diagnostic time and pickup/delivery.

At 5:27 PM the news was that the warranty company had decided NOT to pursue repair and would be contacting the client (me) in the coming days to arrange replacement. :)

Okay, now a question you guys ought to be able to answer. Likely the warranty company will either be issuing me a check or a store credit (either would be acceptable). There is no depreciation clause in the warranty contract, only an aggregate limit pegged at the original purchase price ($2800).

I can put some of my own money with this if necessary, so based on what you know so far, if it was you what would you buy? (general ballpark of $3K +/-)

I think I would like to stay with a console-type unit, i.e., RP or DLP or whatever best deal I can make on a good quality (consumer grade) replacement that will go back into our entertainment center cabinetry.

Maybe need to go to local HTS retail store tomorrow at lunch to "shop"

Thanks!!
Bill
 

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I'd look at the new Mits DLP sets. They look quite good IMO.
 
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