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Lemme check with my supplier and see what they have in stock

Bryan
 

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Discussion Starter #22
Checked my account this AM. Are you able to get the $300.00 of the mineral wool? I wanted to set some aside in case I needed an extra pair of 244's.
 

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Discussion Starter #24 (Edited)
If shipping is more that is alright by me. The Pink insulation in the back didn't seem to help more than 2' thick but I'm not sure the difference with mineral wool. If it is enough to go 2' thick, 4' high, and however wide stacking them would be so that I cover the back wall around 10' wide I would be happy. That would be plenty to try out in other areas also. If shipping is more that is alright, or if I don't have enough I could wait until next week or later if that will help. I will have the other pair of 244's on the back wall to see if adding more may help, but it will take longer for me to determine if more will help or not. I will first try without covering the center area where the 244's are currently which I did last time. I thought it might be better to think ahead just in case, but the back wall is the main agenda.
 

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Discussion Starter #25 (Edited)
I could also instead make it look nicer and place a second pair of 244's spaced on the back wall, then fill in the area behind them with as much Mineral wool as I could get, disregarding the side walls for now. I'm sure that would look nicer and I don't think I have the needed materials for the another frame, and I certainly don't have enough fabric although I have some black curtains that may work.

This is the left and right speakers with some 244's moving absorption to left or right side walls as shown in the previous image. The mains have a X-over of 80Hz.



These RT60 measurements never seem to change much, or if they do, I can't remeasure the same thing twice. They look similar having my my subs on also. The panels depending on where they are placed on the side walls makes the area around 250Hz go lower.



This is how the subwoofer measured with absorption on both side walls and with them also spaced more than 1' off the back wall on each side of the other 244's. The x-over on the sub is 80Hz but 120Hz is also sent tracking a 120Hz X-over.

green is with them on the back wall
blue is with them on the side walls

 

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Discussion Starter #26
Placing the 244's over my stage now gives me reults I like. I moved out the subwoofer out from between the stage, placed insulation in there instead, and placed the other couch back in since I had a complaint about that. Checking the ceiling above the back row there is zero abrorption back there. I found some blankets that I stuffed up in the corners.

This is with four 244's across the front stage with some pink behind them in the center, a small amount of pink laying on the back center wall above the sub there, and the seats, and subs moved again. The stage has a 1 3/4" thick peice of plywood added to the top. The roll-off of the subwoofers in the front of the room looks really good. There are a few tiles missing in the back of the room.

Front row with a quick setup. No eq was done, and it doesn't look equalizable.



The back row looks scarry now. I have never seen such a lack of extention back there. This was without the small absorption on the back wall.

 

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Discussion Starter #28
The highs didn't sound right. The best I could get it to sound was when I placed two 244's at the first reflection points with and additonal one stacked on each pair horizontal, then placed the 2" around my surrounds.
 

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Discussion Starter #30
Here is my 2" on the front wall give or take some adjustments. I had to roll the High Power Screen against the wall while feeding the foam into it and then placing it back into my original box with a foam tube I wrapped in paper towls. The screws holding the frame in place are stripped and my drill will not open to put in a new bit. I have a second frame which was originally designed for it becuase this was a replacement screen from when I had help painting the room and they had painted the previous one on accident.

 

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Discussion Starter #31
Did you check on mineral wool today? I tried calling IIG but the message said they were not in the office.
 

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Actually, I went to call and realized I don't have the contact info in my new phone. Going back through my files from last year to get the info.

Bryan
 

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Discussion Starter #33
I burned some custom ticks and beats to CD and I notice that placing absorption at the side walls in the middle corrects some coloration in the 80Hz area where it instead of sounding localizable from the front to the back of the room it sounds like it is more in phase. I notice that the 250Hz seems to reflect of my ceiling and bounce to the floors corners with some build up there. There is some higher pitched reverberation that seems to dominate on the right side of the room in the front, and the left side of the room in the back. This seems related to the second reflection points. If I were to address these problems, I wonder if adding standard R19 insulation in the back of the room would sound alright and less punchy.
 

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Discussion Starter #34
Very interesting. I checked the reference material for which I had the problem with and placing some the 244's at the side walls midpoints the bass sound very even thoughout the room now but there is some deep sounding bass? from the left or right channels. It does not feel distracting that way. That has to be something with the 244's on the front wall. I think I just need some more 244's and I have listened to alot of material with them at each location, so I will go ahead and order a couple more pair of those for now unless anyone would suggest otherwise.
 

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I don't have any experience with the 244s, so I cannot offer suggestions. As posted elsewhere, all of mine are Monsters. It seems that we both have done our share recently to keep GIK in business:whew:

I notice that your avatar lists media reviewer. Is that your profession? Is your room used in your business? I am an electrical engineer in nuclear power generating plant design. I always envisioned a career in electronics, but when I graduated from college in 1971, the space program was almost over and few electronics firms in the Southeast were hiring. So, power engineering pays the bills for the electronics addiction:nerd:
 

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Discussion Starter #36
I don't have any experience with the 244s, so I cannot offer suggestions. As posted elsewhere, all of mine are Monsters. It seems that we both have done our share recently to keep GIK in business:whew:

I notice that your avatar lists media reviewer. Is that your profession? Is your room used in your business? I am an electrical engineer in nuclear power generating plant design. I always envisioned a career in electronics, but when I graduated from college in 1971, the space program was almost over and few electronics firms in the Southeast were hiring. So, power engineering pays the bills for the electronics addiction:nerd:
Yes I review movies here over in the Media Review forum. If not I would be unemployed like the other 85% in my area during the winter months. Hopefully it will be a better season here at the lake than last summer when it had seemed to rain or storm just about every day. My grandfather always tinkered with electronics and gadgets and my great great grandfather had contributed to MGM for them to get started so it has always been a hobby of mine. It makes my other family members are very jealous when they come over. :bigsmile: I recently took a trip up midwest and got THX certified. A couple summers ago I had inventation from the academy awards to review movies which I would have taken but my family wanted me to have a "normal" job. I might have to write them back to see if they are still interested or not some time.
 

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Discussion Starter #37
I Ordered two Monster traps, but I will get some more 244's later this week. I could probobly get the insulation free.
 

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I think you will be pleased with the performance. At least on paper, they are quite a bit more effective in the lower octaves than the 244s. Bryan indicated that stuffing some pink insulation behind them may improve absorption performance in the lowest bass. I haven't tried that yet.

There is about an inch or so gap at the back of the trap between the back of the material and the back edge of the frame. I suppose the intent is to provide that as an air space even if the trap is pushed against the wall. That may even be there on the 244s.

Something to remember is that GIK will make a custom size of any of their traps for a very nominal fee (I suppose as long as it is within the 24x48 standard). And if you buy more than one, the surcharge for the other custom ones of the same size is even less.
 

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Discussion Starter #39
I think you will be pleased with the performance. At least on paper, they are quite a bit more effective in the lower octaves than the 244s. Bryan indicated that stuffing some pink insulation behind them may improve absorption performance in the lowest bass. I haven't tried that yet.

There is about an inch or so gap at the back of the trap between the back of the material and the back edge of the frame. I suppose the intent is to provide that as an air space even if the trap is pushed against the wall. That may even be there on the 244s.

Something to remember is that GIK will make a custom size of any of their traps for a very nominal fee (I suppose as long as it is within the 24x48 standard). And if you buy more than one, the surcharge for the other custom ones of the same size is even less.
I thought about trying some insulation behind the 244's. It is also 1", 1" 1/4" I think actually. I could fit some pink behind it but I don't have much to spare at the moment. I was looking at the absorption coefficients yesterday of the 244 again and I saw the Monster and looking at them they seem to center right around the problem target frequency in my room. I kept putting them in the checkout, leaving awhile comming back, putting them back in. I'm glad those are ordered finally. I talked to Bryan before about custom sized traps for the small area on my stage, but the cost was out of my price range at the time. Those are still on file should I decide to do that, but with the new Pillar traps there they would be slightly smaller. I'm pretty sure the insulation on there does at least at decent enough amount of absorption.

I could see the Monsters helping above the 244's at the first reflection points or on the front wall. Since I can freely move the speakers I'm not sure I would benifit having them at the first reflection points. My speakers mostly are performers in the mid-bass area although they do go down to 28Hz. It's all these subwoofers in a concrete room that are so difficult. Having the subs at each walls midpoint is suppossed to loose around 12dB - 18dB that way, but I think that I did not loose near that much.
 

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Discussion Starter #40
Replaced a tile on my ceiling with a panel, moved insulation from the front stage (except corners) to the rear of the room, placed left reflection point panels on the stage with the other 244's and took the other 2" panel at the top of the screen wall into the other room to at least maintain symmetry on the front wall. I lost a couple decibals of SPL and equalized to a lower target loosing some headroom but I'm not sure how much. I turned my subwoofer level up so that is nearly +4 higher than the mains. I probobly should just eq to 25Hz which I may do next time but I thought it might be interesting to equalize some around the first room mode. This one is +-9dB. What is more important is what this sounds like.



 
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