[union1411]

Any advice appreciated. If you think I should do something different and remeasure, I can do that. This is the best location for my sub based on experimentation (front corner for SVS and behind my seat for MBM).

Basically, I'm curious if I should equalize and/or get bass traps.

SVS PB10
HSU MBM 12
Treatments for reflection points (no bass traps)
I calibrated MBM and SVS using receiver test tone

Both subs (no mains), 80 receiver crossover; SVS crossed at 50hz

Both subs (no mains), 100 receiver crossover; SVS crossed at 50hz

Both subs (no mains), 150 receiver crossover; SVS crossed at 50hz

 

[union1411]

Waterfalls (to see if you think i need treatments/eq)

Both subs (no mains), 150 hz crossover

 

[union1411]

These two graphs are SVS only (no MBM or mains)

80 hz, no internal crossover

100hz, no internal crossover

sorry, didn't do a 150hz with svs only

waterfall of svs only crossed at 100 hz

vs. waterfall of both subs crossed at 100 hz

 

[union1411]

my dedicated HT room it's only 11 x9 feet. but it's my baby (ignore my DYI screen and speaker heights and black grill on my gray svs, still fiddling around/experimenting with stuff)

 

[union1411]

graphs updated

 

[union1411]

so, i'm wondering if i should keep the MBM-12 or if I should just go with a better sub (and get rid of the SVS) and return the MBM.

I've heard an Epik sub and it sounded much better than my SVS (in a worse room too). So I'm looking at the Epik Castle and I'm interested in the MFW-15 as well. But not sure if one of those subs would be better than the SVS/MBM-12 combo I have. I do have a small room, so not sure how much the nearfield placement benefits of the MBM-12 come into play - I'm sitting only about 6 feet from the from the front of my SVS, so I think the tactile benefits (and the benefits of being close to midbass reproduction) might be there if I just go with one great sub instead of the combo. I don't know. It's time consuming and expensive to buy/return subs to test them out because of the shipping costs and lag between ordering and receiving (though HSU was superfast).

red: svs with mbm 80 hz xo on receiver, 50hz xo on SVS
blue: svs no internal crossover, 80 hz on receiver

red: svs with mbm 100 hz xo on receiver, 50hz xo on SVS
blue: svs no internal crossover, 100 hz on receiver

decisions, decisions

 

[union1411]

anyone?

bueller?

am i a leper?

 

[weverb]

anyone?

bueller?

am i a leper?

I know how you feel some times. It takes awhile for the experts to chime in. As for keeping the MBM. We can't answer that for you. Looking at your graph of just the SVS, you may not need one. Have you looked at applying Wayne's hard knee curve to your graph's? Do you have any type of BFD? There is a good chance you do not need the MBM. It will take some tweaking with a BFD to get there. If you are not interested in pursing/applying a BFD, then keep the MBM. It is obviously helping the range it was designed to.

 

[HomeTRNut]

Well said, weverb...

union1411, I would think that your current set-up sounds amazing in your space....

 

[brucek]

anyone?

I don't personally buy into the mid bass module theory, so I'm a poor one to ask...... but I thought weverb said it best:

As for keeping the MBM. We can't answer that for you. Looking at your graph of just the SVS, you may not need one.

brucek

 

[union1411]

thanks for the responses. i'm gonna do some serious listening of the SVS alone compared to the combo (using blu rays that have great audio like Die Hard 4, Cloverfield, etc) and move the SVS around and see if the $500 for the MBM is worth it.

so, what about treatments or eq? so far does it look like i need them?

 

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

Basically, I'm curious if I should equalize and/or get bass traps.

The answer is "yes."

It looks like you have about a 5-6 dB drop between 20-40 Hz - an equalizer could help that. An EQ could also help craft a house curve.

As you probably know, what bass traps do is truncate low frequency decay times. Yours actually look pretty good for an "untrapped" room. That 60 Hz thing is nothing to worry about, probably noise from an electric mnotor of some kind - fridge, A/C, etc.

To get the most from waterfall readings, you might want to add the mains and extend the graph's upper limit out to 300 Hz or so, since bass traps (if you get them) can improve decay up that high. It's best to keep your output levels 40-50 dB above the noise floor, and the graph's floor should be a good reflection of the room's ambient noise floor. A 45 dB lower graph limit is fine for frequency response readings, but kind of high for a waterfall, since most domestic rooms have ambient levels at least 10-15sd dB lower.

As far as subs go, you might want to add the SVS model that Sonnie had to your short list. Forget the model, but it had two 12" drivers; I'm sure he could tell you what it was.

Regards,
Wayne

 

[union1411]

thanks for responses again. i will fiddle with the waterfalls again with new settings.

i made more measurements tonight with SVS only (no MBM).

80db sweep; 80 xo; and this time the mic was placed much closer to where the person's head would be, using tripod. and no audyssey whatsoever (left Multi-EQ on last night by accident).

left seat and right seat. pretty amazing what this little sub can do. now i just need to sit down and A/B the combo and svs only. my impression the past using the combo with the MBM is that the midbass is more textured, so the sound quality is richer than with SVS only, of course that could be placebo.

 

[union1411]

SVS-only and placed in right corner. same receiver settings as above. me likey.

 

[weverb]

What are your plans now for the MBM?

 

[union1411]

What are your plans now for the MBM?

Returning it.

I did some listening of SVS alone last night on Die Hard 4 lossless (I've memorized it by now) and compared to the combo with MBM. I get the same tactile response with just the SVS and the midbass sounds pretty much identical - at one point I actually thought the SVS alone sounded better during a certain scene with gunshots, but that could be explained by the fact that it's a little harder to calibrate two subs than one. Either way, for my room, because it's so small perhaps, the MBM just doesn't offer $500 of value for me.

Now I'm looking at possibly replacing the SVS with the Epik Castle or MFW-15.

I love the sound of the Epik sub I heard before and that was just the Caliber. And Castle goes significantly lwoer than my SVS, which is nice because with my leather seats and small room I get alot of tactile response in my booty I'd be the first to buy buttkickers but I simply do not need them in my setup.

As for the MFW-15, according to craigsub on avs in that huge thread, he said he loves its midbass slam but i believe he implied that the castle is better for going lower - don't quote me on that though; i have to reread the thread.

Kinda silly that i'm considering upgrading my sub for that small of a room, but it's my mancave and i appreciate good subs when done right.

 

[weverb]

Kinda silly that i'm considering upgrading my sub for that small of a room, but it's my mancave and i appreciate good subs when done right.

It's never silly. :bigsmile:

 

[etcarroll]

Perfectly understandable.

I was at a GTG and watched the shootout in Open Range on a system with a pair of MWF-15s that Mark Seaton had calibrated. The individual shots could be felt in the chest. It's the experience that made me dload REW and finally begin tweaking my SVS PB12+2 once and for all.

But I'm thinking it may be time for something newer.

Returning it.

I did some listening of SVS alone last night on Die Hard 4 lossless (I've memorized it by now) and compared to the combo with MBM. I get the same tactile response with just the SVS and the midbass sounds pretty much identical - at one point I actually thought the SVS alone sounded better during a certain scene with gunshots, but that could be explained by the fact that it's a little harder to calibrate two subs than one. Either way, for my room, because it's so small perhaps, the MBM just doesn't offer $500 of value for me.

Now I'm looking at possibly replacing the SVS with the Epik Castle or MFW-15.

I love the sound of the Epik sub I heard before and that was just the Caliber. And Castle goes significantly lwoer than my SVS, which is nice because with my leather seats and small room I get alot of tactile response in my booty I'd be the first to buy buttkickers but I simply do not need them in my setup.

As for the MFW-15, according to craigsub on avs in that huge thread, he said he loves its midbass slam but i believe he implied that the castle is better for going lower - don't quote me on that though; i have to reread the thread.

Kinda silly that i'm considering upgrading my sub for that small of a room, but it's my mancave and i appreciate good subs when done right.

 

[union1411]

Ok I might have spoken too soon about the MBM. I realized I had not calibrated it correctly. So tonight I did (like this: MBM to speakers, then SVS with internal x/o to MBM, then the combo with internal xo to speakers).

Result (hearing-wise, not REW): wow. Much better than the SVS alone, especially with gunshots, etc. A lot more tactile. SVS is tactile in my room, but this is another level of tactile. Will try more movies and run REW again - bye bye weekend

Even though MBM combo now sounds a lot better, still not sure if I'm better off getting one very good sub and dismissing these two. No way to know unless I buy a new sub and compare I love being single. Or maybe this is why I'm single. hmmmmmm

 

[union1411]

did some more measurements

as i suspected from watching movies, Dynamic Eq (not to be confused with Dynamic Volume) via Audssey is boosting the bass. and i was careful to check the SPL level when switching back forth from dynamic so the sweep would still be at 80db. left the mains on



No Dynamic Eq

With Dynamic EQ