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Discussion Starter #1
I have a 16 wide x 18 long room. Its open on the back to the kitchen. I have a eD A2-300. It just cant deliver as much due to the open nature of the space. I am looking at 2 options for sub(s) and 2 for amps. I wanted thoughts on them and I am open to suggestions.

I am trying to get the best room response I can for the buck and get some down low sub 20hz stuff going on. The goal is for this to be mostly HT based for LFE. Music is secondary. I am also looking for a more even room response (hence looking at duals), but also something that gives me some decent umph and hopefully down to 20hz. I am ballparking w/ the dining room that I am at or over 3k cubic foot.

I have capable fronts in my Polk LSi 15's. They have been modded to replace the stock 8" driver with Polks db851 driver. They are being driven with 550 wpc from a hot rodded Carver M1.0t. I have them crossed at 50hz right now IIRC.

I am also potentially debating the iNuke subs, I just am not sure if I want to go with them over the QSC's......

I am REACHING if I spend 1k on this total. I am hoping to be MUCHmore in the 800 dollar range for just driver(s) and amp.

Here are some options I am debating.

Option 1a: 2 12" Dayton Ultimax drivers. Each in a 4 cubic ft box. Driven by a QSC-7 so each will get 1k @ 4 ohm.

Option 1b: 1 TC Sounds LMS-R in a 6 cubic foot box. Each Voice coil driven by a channel from the QSC-7 giving it 1k @ 4 ohm.

Option 2a: 2 12" Dayton Ultimax drivers. Each in a 4 cubic ft. Driven by a QSC GX-5 so each will get 700w @ 4 ohm.

Option 2b: 1 TC Sounds LMS-R in a 6 cubic foot box. Each Voice coil driven by a channel from the QSC GX-5 giving it 700w @ 4 ohm.

I am totally open to other suggestions but prefer they meet the following metrics:

1. 12 or 15" driver Preferred. Willing to look at 18" woofers.
2. No bigger than 6 cubic foot box. I would prefer to build a Sonotube as its more WAF friendly as its tall but not nearly as deep as say a Martysub
3. Would LOVE IT if I could do duals to start with, or if nothing else if the amp could handle duals on its own.
4. IF I CAN GET EQ I WOULD BE HAPPY. Otherwise I am looking hard at a 2 x 4 minidsp w/ mic to use REW to EQ my setup.
5. I am on a slab with no crawlspace. I am on the first floor with a room above me and exterior walls on 2 sides. There is no way to hide the sub in the walls or floor.
6. Must be downfiring with ports at the bottom (or if sonotube at the top). Small child = poke poke on driver.

Here is what my setup looks like (these are stock pics from when we bought the house)














Any thoughts or suggestions appreciated.
 

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I have a 16 wide x 18 long room. Its open on the back to the kitchen. I have a eD A2-300. It just cant deliver as much due to the open nature of the space. I am looking at 2 options for sub(s) and 2 for amps. I wanted thoughts on them and I am open to suggestions.

I am trying to get the best room response I can for the buck and get some down low sub 20hz stuff going on. The goal is for this to be mostly HT based for LFE. Music is secondary. I am also looking for a more even room response (hence looking at duals), but also something that gives me some decent umph and hopefully down to 20hz. I am ballparking w/ the dining room that I am at or over 3k cubic foot.

I am totally open to other suggestions but prefer they meet the following metrics:

1. 12 or 15" driver Preferred. Willing to look at 18" woofers.
2. No bigger than 6 cubic foot box. I would prefer to build a Sonotube as its more WAF friendly as its tall but not nearly as deep as say a Martysub
3. Would LOVE IT if I could do duals to start with, or if nothing else if the amp could handle duals on its own.
4. IF I CAN GET EQ I WOULD BE HAPPY. Otherwise I am looking hard at a 2 x 4 minidsp w/ mic to use REW to EQ my setup.
5. I am on a slab with no crawlspace. I am on the first floor with a room above me and exterior walls on 2 sides. There is no way to hide the sub in the walls or floor.
6. Must be downfiring with ports at the bottom (or if sonotube at the top). Small child = poke poke on driver.

Any thoughts or suggestions appreciated.
You might want to search for some of the builds here using either the Infinity 1260 or 1262 12" driver(s). The 1260 is SVC (4-ohm), while the 1262 is DVC (4-ohm x 2). Which one would work best for you, would depend on how many you are using vs. what impedance your amp can safely drive. Both would work fairly well either sealed or ported, with the size restrictions you give. The best part, at ~$60 each, they are a bargain for what you get.
http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-Reference-1260w-1200-watt-High-Performance/dp/B0028AVGEO
http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-Reference-1262w-1200-Watt-High-Performance/dp/B0028AYIXK

With your budget and room size, I would get 4 of them and build 2 enclosures with 2 drivers each. If you went ported and larger you could get by with roughly 400 W RMS to each enclosure (i.e. to 2 drivers) to hit Xmax. Sealed and smaller would require more power. A model would provide more insight, once you decided which route to go. Either way, you could use one stereo amp to save money. Build one and use one channel or build two and use both channels.

Sonosubs are nice a way to go, if you want to limit the footprint, but MDF can also be used. The nice thing about DIY is that you control the footprint. For example, I just built a self-powered dual opposed sub using (2) 1262 drivers. Like you, I didn't want to eat up a lot of floor space, so I built up on 16" deep x 24" wide footprint.
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/ported-subwoofer-build-projects/74084-2-infinity-ref1262w-9-ft3-18-hz-tune-bash-500w.html

As far as protecting the speakers, Parts Express sells nice mesh metal grills for about $10 each.
http://www.parts-express.com/steel-mesh-2-piece-grill-for-12-speaker-black--260-428

MiniDSP is nice, especially when you need to set up a HPF on a ported sub to control cone excursion below tune. Add a UMIK-1 with REW and you will really have a lot of control for not much money. However, neither is mandatory assuming you can set up a HPF some other way (Some amps have the ability). A receiver/preamp with Audyssey MultEQ XT and higher, can also do much of the same, save the HPF.

You may want to consider the iNuke DSP line (with fan mod if it's going to be in your listening area). The DSP will allow you to set up the HPF, and they are also 2-ohm stable. In that case, you could use the NU1000DSP (~$199, 380 W RMS per channel, 2-ohm) if you went ported and larger. Or step up to the NU3000DSP (~$279, 1040 W RMS per channel, 2-ohm) if you go sealed and smaller or just want some more headroom.


$250 (4) 1260 drivers
$200/$280 amp
$200 4 sheets 3/4" pro grade MDF (possibly only 3, if sealed)
$150 hardware/paint/wire/misc
-----
$800 - $880 total
 

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Discussion Starter #4
MiniDSP is nice, especially when you need to set up a HPF on a ported sub to control cone excursion below tune. Add a UMIK-1 with REW and you will really have a lot of control for not much money. However, neither is mandatory assuming you can set up a HPF some other way (Some amps have the ability). A receiver/preamp with Audyssey MultEQ XT and higher, can also do much of the same, save the HPF.

You may want to consider the iNuke DSP line (with fan mod if it's going to be in your listening area). The DSP will allow you to set up the HPF, and they are also 2-ohm stable. In that case, you could use the NU1000DSP (~$199, 380 W RMS per channel, 2-ohm) if you went ported and larger. Or step up to the NU3000DSP (~$279, 1040 W RMS per channel, 2-ohm) if you go sealed and smaller or just want some more headroom.
I will take a look at those subs, but given the size of your enclosure that simply wont pass muster here with WAF smile.gif. They sure do look quite nice.

The reason for the MiniDSP is that right now I have Audyssey 2EQ only, hence no real DSP on my sub. I wanted the ability to incorporate multiples if I wanted to use 4 later on and the DSP allows me to do that. Plus I can also use the REW setup to help me better place my existing fronts so they work better.

Thats why I am looking at the minidsp and then NOT the DSP iNuke models..

I am also "looking" at MartyCube's using the Dayton 18" driver. My issue with them is that compared to the LMS-R they are MUCH louder till about 25 hz and then they drop off quickly. I am wanting decent output at 20hz and the LMS-R looks to provide that, however the MartyCube's can both be built with a iNuke 3000 and driven to their max.

Martycube: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1516724/martysub-flatpacks


Certain iNuke amps have a DSP option, does QSC offer the same thing?
Nope, the QSC doesnt. Also though I am debating the minidsp on top which negates that need. I just dont know how the iNuke can provide as much rated wattage as it suggests, but I am also not an electronics guy....
 

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So you want 20 hz extension in a sonotube under 6 cu.ft. The best I can come up with would be a pair of CSS SDX12's each in 5 cu.ft. tuned to 20 hz. The SDX12 is comparable to a LMS-R12 only way cheaper, they are $519 a pair shipping included.

http://creativesound.ca/details.php?model=SDX12 Promo

Modeling shows the the SPL of a single driver in green with 1000 watts, yellow is the combined SPL of 2 drivers with 2000 watts which would be an estimated 117 db at 20 hz plus any effects of room gain. A HPF is required at 22 hz and porting is a 6" flared port 34.5" long. Maximum port air speed is 23 m/s at 20 hz.

sdx12.jpg

Here are the dimensions required for a 16" diameter sonotube with 4" legs and a base plate.

sonotube.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #6
AWESOME MAN!

Thats almost exactly what I was looking to see.

Do you know anything about the MartyCube's which use 18" drivers instead of the 12's.

The approximate dimensions are 2' by 2',by 2' ~20hz tuning in 5 cuft box (1100 watts). It uses these drivers.

Also whats the thought on 12 v 15 v 18. I always hear the 12's and 15's are quicker to hit than the 18's.

I REALLY REALLY like how just straight flat that graph is with duals. I am thinking that may be exactly what I go with as it just looks really good and from a cost perspective its quite good.

Anyway to model it in a 18" Sonotube to see what height that might be? I am not wanting to make these taller than my mains which are 45.5

Any suggestions on if I should go with the iNuke or the QSC's?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I am also ok with multiple ports if that somehow allows us to make it a bit shorter. Like I said I am wanting ot keep it under 45 1/2 inches tall so its not taller than my mains. Otherwise not sure the WAF factor will work. But I also dont want it to be 2 feet in diameter either. Its a hard line to draw, so I am thinking the 18" Sonotube will work with multiple ports just like the SVS's....
 

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The 460HO is a 24" cube will have more output above 25 hz and less output in the 18 -25 hz range compared to the SDX12. The 460HO also will not fit in a sonotube due to the port length being too long for the sonotube height, unless you use 6" elbows which gets pricey really quick.

What size sonotube (diameter and height) can you get away with without exceeding the WHF (Wife Happy Factor)?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
The 460HO is a 24" cube will have more output above 25 hz and less output in the 18 -25 hz range compared to the SDX12. The 460HO also will not fit in a sonotube due to the port length being too long for the sonotube height, unless you use 6" elbows which gets pricey really quick.

What size sonotube (diameter and height) can you get away with without exceeding the WHF (Wife Happy Factor)?
I think more than likely a 18" Sonotube is about as much as I can get away with, since I would still need to wrap it with fabric. Likely if I can keep it under the height of my mains I "should" be ok.

Would you suggest putting the 12's in a box? I am "OK" with boxes, but the Sonotube would be simpler to build and easier to wrap in fabric and have a "better" WAF factor. My current eD has a rhinoline/durex finish which is fine as it holds up when my 1 year old decides to slap it around. I would finish a box in a similar fashion for the same reason.

Any box needs to be downfiring and vented at the bottom as well (I was going to put the MartyCube facing down). Prefer something thats close to a square rather than something really skinny and tall (in box form)

The 460HO does have more output above 25 for sure, but I am not about PURE SPL numbers. I want a decent response from 2 locations in my room to even it out since I have such a large area to cover. My wife doesnt like it when I crank it, so the big boom's will be when its just me. I am just wanting a good overall response and the ability to fill the room right which given my space I know means duals in each corner, and possibly even later on another one as a endtable in a third location. I also dont know if you could kick up the db's under 25hz with the 260HO's via DSP (such as a miniDSP) to get to where the 12's end up.
 

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Discussion Starter #11

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The value option: (2) Infinity 1262, 5 ft3 per enclosure x 2, 20 Hz tune, 19 Hz HPF, 300 watts per enclosure x 2. $130 in drivers vs $520 in drivers (SDX12). 600 W vs. 2000 W.

F3 at 22 Hz.

SPL is shown at driver xMax of 13 mm.

112.5 db at 20 Hz (1 m GP).

1262.jpg
 

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The value option: (2) Infinity 1262, 5 ft3 per enclosure x 2, 20 Hz tune, 19 Hz HPF, 300 watts per enclosure x 2. $130 in drivers vs $520 in drivers (SDX12). 600 W vs. 2000 W.

F3 at 22 Hz.

SPL is shown at driver xMax of 13 mm.

112.5 db at 20 Hz (1 m GP).

View attachment 48315
Can you upload the driver file for the 1262 please?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
So here I guess are my driver options:

1. CSS SDX12 (duals): $519

2. Dayton Audio RSS460HO-4 18" Reference HO Subwoofer 4 ohm (duals): $500

3. Stereo Integrity HT 15D4 (currently unavailable): $Unknown

4. Dayton Audio UM15-22 15" Ultimax DVC Subwoofer 2 ohms Per Coil (duals): $400

5. Infinity subs (I just cant see these things performing well given their cost)

Then the obvious is ported or sealed. I prefer ported but guess Sonotubes are out as I dont think the height needed will work to my advantage. I am not against sealed its just normally they dont give you the needed numbers down low v. ported. I may go with a sealed box or two later on closer to the LP just to reinforce things, but starting with 2 for now.

So I am wondering how any of these will model in a 2 x 2 x 2 box (measurements include ports & bracing). I am relying on a buddy to make the boxes for me on this as I lack the skills. A box smaller than 2 x 2 x 2 is fine too if its possible.

I also VERY MUCH prefer to go with 2 subs rather than build one sub dual opposed. I am looking for more even bass response which is achieved by using more subs spread throughout.

Thoughts are still VERY MUCH appreciated as I am running around in circles in my head it seems.

Total budget right now is ~ 800 for drivers & amp. Under would be fine as it leaves money for parts....
 

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Discussion Starter #18
The best value will be the SI HT15D4, they are available. They can be wired together for a 4 ohm load. They model the same as the 460HO in a 24" slot ported cube and are cheaper. Power would be a iNuke 3000DSP with a fan modification.
I didnt know that model was available. So are you suggesting a total of 2 of those subs each in its own box with a iNuke 3000 or are you suggesting 2 sets of dual opposed of those in a 24" cube?
 

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5. Infinity subs (I just cant see these things performing well given their cost)
It's not their cost; it's their value (cost/benefit) when used appropriately.

More expensive drivers can be used, but unless you have the power and enclosure volume to take advantage of their potential, then you are spending more money for what?

As far as them performing well, all you need to do is search on here or AVS. They work great in the right application for me; see what others have to say about their builds for yourself.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1424348/4-infinity-1260s-completed-with-pics
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1413125/dual-opposed-infinity-reference-1262w
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1519758/cheap-and-easy-dual-sealed-infinity-1262ws-using-diysoundgroup-flat-packs
 

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I didnt know that model was available. So are you suggesting a total of 2 of those subs each in its own box with a iNuke 3000 or are you suggesting 2 sets of dual opposed of those in a 24" cube?
One in each cabinet ported, both powered by the iNuke.
 
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