[JSampson]

Hey guys,
I planned on upgrading my HT setup and have had my heart set on Kplisch speakers all the way around along with a Denon Receiver. My current receiver is one that I bought a couple of years ago; the AVR-791, which I really enjoy, but don't get to hear the great audio that this receiver can dish out because of the Panasonic Speakers. My current Subwoofer is actually my nicest speaker I have and it's a Pioneer SW-8 8" Ported Subwoofer. During that time, I read up on alot and did an insane amount of research.

Well that was a few years ago and I have lost most of my knowledge. Things happened between then and now. I'm selling it all off and starting from scratch. I was originally going to go with my pair of TC Sounds TC1000 12's with the TC2+ Motor. But I don't have those any longer, sooo

I just bought a TC Sounds TC9 12" Subwoofer. I have read there are so many variations of this and other TC Sounds subs, but I think it has to do with the motor, not the actual subwoofer. I know car audio VERY well. It's one of the few things I am very knowledgeable about and that I am very good at. HT is a completely different area.

The HT setup will be going in a living room with carpet. It will be moved around from time to time into different living rooms, till I get my first house and by then, I'll have an entirely new setup. I want my subwoofer to really rumble down low. I also want you to feel the bass that will make my friends to have their jaws dropped. I was thinking around the 18-20Hz range? I have no idea assuming the lowest someone would build their box design to a frequency of 14Hz and as high as 30Hz for HT usage. There will be minimal amount of music only being played. The occasional party will have music playing, but it's not likely that the stereo will be so loud to have a consideration for my frequency tuning; so this frequency tuning of the box design will be for 100% HT only.

The Specs of the TC9 12" Subwoofer are below the bottom.



What I need to know is the following..

1. I need a good budget friendly amplifier. This sub, unfortunately, is a Dual 4 ohm sub, so I have to wire it for a 2 ohm load or an 8 ohm load. No 4 ohm loads here. I want to be able to throw all of the wattage at it that it can handle, which is up to 1kwrms

2. I need an opinion on the NET size of the box. What is recommended for a ported box, which I believe is for car audio, is: 2.0-2.5 cubic feet.

3. I need to know what I need to have the tuning of my box to be.




Features:
-Single piece aircraft aluminum cone
-Dual 4 ohm voice coils
-140oz large diameter motor for awesome motor strength
- Anti-flux-modulation shorting ring to reduce distortion
-High temperature low eddy-current stainless steel voice coil former
-Full 1" symmetrical XBR surround for over 2" peak-to-peak excursion


Thanks!

Specs:
RMS Wattage- ~800w (Can 600wrms-1000wrms)
Fs - 26.5hz
Cms - 187.8 um/N
Mms - 192.1 g
Qts - .321
Qes - .341
Qms - 5.562
Re - 3.156
BL - 17.2 T*m
Sd - 78.54 sq.in.
Sens - 87.71 1w/1m
Mounting Depth: 6.2"
Diameter: 12.6"
Cutout: 11.1"
Weight 23.8 lb

 

[Mike P.]

The parameters you posted appear to be wrong.

If the driver looks like this and is dual 4 ohm coils:



then these are the specs which were taken from the TC Sounds website on Feb. 24, 2007 when the TC9 was reintroduced as D4 driver.

 

[JSampson]

Thank you for that information. I couldn't find that information on TC Sounds website. I meant to put that those were the specs the guy put in the EBay description. I'll post pictures of the subwoofer when I get it Monday. I didn't know if those specs that he pasted were right or not.

Got it for $110 + $20 Shipping. I thought it was a of a deal as the old school TC Sounds Subs are getting harder to find over time and the newer stuff isn't as great.

I can't seem to upload the pictures as the resolution is too big. ???

Here is a link of the subwoofer.
http://m.ebay.com/itm/281207090843

 

[JSampson]

Has anyone ever used two plate amps to power one subwoofer? Since mine will have a final impedance load of 2 ohms or 8 ohms, it's hard to find an amp that can support 2 ohms and hard to find one that can do 800-1000wrms @ 8 ohms. I knew I was going to have trouble finding an amp with this voice coil configuration, but I couldn't help myself with this TC9 12" Sub for $110.

 

[JSampson]

Can anyone help me with either box recommendation, a website to build a ported box or maybe even a box plan? I just found out that the program I use for my ported box plans, is not accurate.

I used RE Audio's subwoofer box calculator here: http://reaudio.com/box.php It's a great website and I have used it for many years as I can play with the depth, height 1, height 2, length, slot port width and slot port length all to get the desired tuning frequency. Other than the fact that people are stating it's not accurate, there are other issues with the calculator. It doesn't allow you to choose a round port (I like slot ports anyway) and you can't use dual ports.

I know that there are programs such as Bass Box Pro, Bass Box Lite, Torres, etc... But I haven't found the TC Sounds TC9 for the T/S Parameters to load. If they don't have the subwoofer, then you have to manually enter in the T/S Parameters.

I just simply want to design my box as simply as the RE Audio Box Calculator without having to deal with all of the T/S Parameters. I'm sure it would help me out if I were able to load the driver or have ALL of the T/S Specs, but I don't and I'm not even sure which TC9 12 I have as they seemed to vary.

Any help would be great. I still haven't found me a good amplifier to power this bad boy yet. I want to feed it as much as it's recommended 800wrms as possible, but can take 1kwrms. It's tough since it's a Dual 4 ohm so I either get a 2 ohm load or an 8 ohm load. I kinda wish I would have waited for another TC Sounds Sub that was Dual 2 ohm instead of Dual 4 ohm, but when I saw it for $110, Buy It Now for a TC9 12" sub, I figured I would make it work somehow.

 

[Mike P.]

Based on the parameters I got from the TC website this driver is a challenge. It doesn't model well in sealed and in ported is needs 2.5 cu.ft. tuned to 20 hz with 1000 watts and a HPF at 18 hz. The problem will be porting as the port will be way too long. This driver is a candidate for passive radiators.

 

[JSampson]

Thank you again VERY much for that info, Mike. I really appreciate it. I figured on 2.5cuft net already, so it's good that your info shows to be the same. I assume you went based on the T/S Parameters you provided? After looking at his picture, that looks like my subwoofer. I'm not sure what another TC9 would look like. I'd have to make a rectangular box that's not very deep. I really don't want to do a PR setup. I prefer a ported setup, plus I have to spend a good chunk of cash on an amplifier to power this thing at 2 ohms (if there is even an amp that can do 1kwrms @ 2 ohms) or somehow find a massive amplifier that will power 1kw @ 8 ohms. I was hoping for a higher sensitivity as it has a sensitivity of 84.7dB. Was hoping for a range of 86-88dB. However I do know, from owning a pair of TC1000 12's, that TC Sounds subwoofers get loud off of very little wattage since they have a great underhung motor

I'm glad to hear that I can tune down as low as 20Hz. Is it necessary to tune that low or would it be best to tune a little higher? How often do movies get that low? I'm assuming that the figure of 20Hz is the flattest response, right? Sorry I just 20 questioned ya, this is just my first DIY HT Sub, but not my first Subwoofer box build. I'm trying to get my mind out of car audio mode that it's been in for the past 13 years.

Based on the parameters I got from the TC website this driver is a challenge. It doesn't model well in sealed and in ported is needs 2.5 cu.ft. tuned to 20 hz with 1000 watts and a HPF at 18 hz. The problem will be porting as the port will be way too long. This driver is a candidate for passive radiators.

 

[JSampson]

1st picture is of the subwoofer. The motor needs to be polished a bit and so does the cone. The cone is awfully dark from something other than the obvious time, but my TC1000's were bring as can be back in 2010-11 and they were already several years old I believe.

Second picture is just my set of each one of my speakers. I did it just to line them up next to each other from 6 3/4" to 12" speakers. I have more speakers than that. I'm still missing my Focal K2p 6.75" Component Speakers, Focal Performance PS165 6.5" Component Speakers, Infinity Reference 12's and a couple more hanging around here somewhere.

From Left to Right

1st: Focal Utopia 6W2 Mid-Range Driver from a component set

2nd: My baby's. 1 of FOUR Sundown Audio SA-8 V.2 Stock SPL models. Factory internals were gutted, replaced with a lighter voice coil, took out the factory 4 spider packs, replaced them with stiffer spider packs while adding two extra spider packs. Originally they were rated for 800wrms. Now they can handle 1000kwrms. I'm looking to break the 150dB barrier with 8" Subwoofers in a Daily Driver Setup in my truck

3rd: Infinity Kappa Perfect VQ10's. These are very hefty !! Rated only for 400wrms, I turned one of my Audiopipe AP18001D's rated for 1800wrms @ 1 ohm. Awesome sound quality, just requires too much airspace for a pair of 10's at 2.5cuft(1.25-2.5 is recommended) NET EACH! They were in a HUGE box, but people always asked "what kind of 15's you have in there? How many 12's you have man? I called that my magic box.

4th: Infinity Reference 12". It's just a subwoofer I had lying around to throw in there for a 12" subwoofer.

You can see that the 8" sub stands just as tall as the 10 and 12 does. Those were expensive. Won't ever find one around anywhere like the 4 I have.

Anyway, the second picture was for fun. Should have seen my longbed F-150 when I took everything out of my '08 Sierra Crew Cab with the custom ported fiberglassed box for the 8" subs firing forward underneath the rear seats that I lifted 3". 4750wrms! Whew, too much coffee this morning already. dog just had to get up early today. Now I'm going to fall asleep during the Cowboys game. Gooo Chokes! :sad:

 

[Mike P.]

20 hz extension and lower is what home theater is all about.
Since you want ported the best I can come up with would be 2.5 cu.ft. net volume tuned to 22 hz.
Power would be from a Behringer iNuke 3000DSP which would provide the 1000 watts at 8 ohms in bridged mode. The amp also has the required HPF at 20 hz.
Porting would be a slot port with 25 square inches of port area, 2" x 12.5" or equivalent.
Port length would be 51" and the first port resonance will be 130 hz which is about as low as you want to go with a 80 hz crossover from your receiver.
Maximum port air speed will be under 24 m/s at 22 hz.
All bends in the slot port will need to be rounded over.

Be aware the Behiringer fans are noisy and need to be swapped out for quieter ones.

 

[JSampson]

Wow, thanks Mike! Again! You just solved all of my DIY Subwoofer build questions. I haven't checked out the Beringer amp yet, but I'm going to today. I really appreciate you punching through the numbers and getting me all of the correct info.

Well, I actually have another question or two.

What program did you use? It seems like a great program as I need one for car audio since my goto calculator was the RE Audio Box Calculator, which is apparently inaccurate, but have used it for around 20 different boxes and me knowing what key T/S Specs were key and came up with my box design. All of my boxes came out great, especially my Magic Box from at Dual 10" Infinity Kappa Perfects.

Lastly, to make the box look good, does everyone just go with the veneer route or is there a cuft of medium or high density wood that is cut true/flat with a good finish? I honestly prefer a black finish and my speakers will be black when I purchase them, whatever they are. I have never veneered wood, so I don't even know how tough it is. My step dad has though so I'm sure he could show me. I'll probably be using his shop anyway.

 

[Mike P.]

I use WinISD Pro, there a tutorial on it here:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...wnload-detailed-guide-how-use-winisd-pro.html

Lots of members use MDF for cabinet building, especially if you're going to finish it in a solid color. Just make sure you prime it really well, the end cuts really soak up the paint.

Just did some calculations, with the displacement of the port , driver and bracing added the total internal cabinet volume will be close to 4 cu.ft.

 

[JSampson]

Having problems with not having all of the T/S Parameters. I think I have the fields right on Win ISD. Converted millimeters to meters for the XMax and Inches to meters for the Diameter, which I assume is 12" for having a 12" subwoofer. I don't see the ohm measurement of the voice coil for