Home Theater Forum and Systems banner

1 - 20 of 59 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
60 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Dear Folks,

I've searched the forum for sub-recommendations and am now suffering from information overload and can't seem to make a list to even narrow down my choices and now I need your help to finalize a sub-woofer for a 5.1ch Home-theater with Active speakers.

Center & Surrounds: Genelec G Three (consumer grade version of 8030)
Left & Right: Genelec G Four (consumer grade version of 8040)
The advantage with this setup is the G 4 paired with a good sub gets me a very good 2.1ch setup for music that performs at the G4 level and for movies the G 4 can easily match the level of the G 3 in the center/surrounds and I will essentially get a 5.1ch setup that performs at the G 3 level for movies.

My requirement is a sub that integrates well with the above setup. The sub has to perform (fidelity not SPL) better than the Genelec 7060 (at the $2100 price range) and at least as good as the Genelec 7050 ($1100 price range).


In short - my question is as follows:
Is the Genelec 7060 the best sub in the world (for fidelity and low distortion) at its $2100 price point?


The main performance criteria being very low distortion, high fidelity/accuracy/transparency, tight, clean bass. SPL is not the most important factor.

The dealer claims that the Genelec 7060 is worth every penny of its $2200 price because of the following: Genelec's proprietary Laminar Spiral Enclosure (LSE) [does anyone know how this makes the sub better than everything else], "0" db baffle resonance, driver giving all the SPL and not the cabinets rattling, construction rock solid and no coloration in the Low Frequency and also power efficient consumes only 120W for an [email protected] of 108dB and is well integrated with the Genelec speakers.


Other details - in case you have time to read further:
1. Budget: $1000 to $2000 (base USD prices before taxes, shipping etc).Since I can't buy used, I will also have to add about 70% on top of the base price for duty, shipping ,VAT etc to arrive at my final cost.

2. Size requirements/limits: I think an 8" or 10" sub should be sufficient - should have freq response down to 21 or 22 hz. with the best fidelity/accuracy/transparency, tight clean distortion free bass is my most important criterion - not loudness/SPL.

3. Room dimensions: Living/Dining hall: 25' x 18' open to a Foyer: 9' x 12' with Ceiling height 10'. Flooring is polished marble, walls are brick with cement plaster. (Refer: 4BHK layout.jpg )

4. Primary uses: Usage will be about 70% movies - 30% music.
All videos (avi, mp4, mpg, mkv, divx etc) and music (mp3) files are on hard-disk and will be played via VLC player from a home-theater PC, all the speakers will be directly connected to the 5.1ch sound card on the PC using XLR (any body know if a sound card has XLR out available?) or through RCA-XLR conversion jack or plain RCA jack.

5. Listening habits: I do not plan on playing it with blow me off my seats loudness (except may be when the wife is away) but just a set that is accurate/ transparent, without rattling and unwanted vibrations etc. I'm not looking for earth shattering bass - just accurate, clean distortion free bass - that is as good as or better than Genelec 7060.

6. Appearance requirements: It has to be sufficiently compact and good looking to complement the Genelecs G 4/ G 3 but needn't be super-compact or sleek - so as to compromise price or performance...It needs to be made in Europe or North America

7. Location and Time-frame: I'm an American expat based in Bangalore, India and that means fewer options to consider and there is no "used" market to speak of and imported things in general cost nearly double here compared to the base US prices. Can't really buy internet direct either - but I do want the best (most accurate, transparent) sub out there in my price range... therefore I may be willing to wait and buy the right thing by whatever means I can.

8. DIY is not an option for this setup. I may do it as a second or complementary sub - if needed - but the criteria will remain the same - tight bass, low distortion, no rattling, power efficient etc comparable to Genelec... I don't think I can achieve that in a million years...

9. WAF: "Any crazy thing which is...Not too big, Not too loud. Not too ugly."

10. I'm looking to find the "Best" sub there is not just "very good or excellent" in the $700 - $2000 price bracket.
I assume there are very few choices (in my budget)... that are equal or better performance/accuracy than the Genelec 7060 in the above categories: tight bass, low distortion, low waste due to heat or noise, accuracy/transparency,etc...(loudness and bomb like air/earth moving ability is not a criterion for me) - the brand has to have the same studio cred and audiophile/pro/musician cred and halo effect as the Genelecs and look tastefully (no flashy/glossy stuff) done too...

would the Genelec 7060 still be the sub to get at the $2000 price point?
 

Attachments

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
15,054 Posts
Hello and welcome to the HTS!
Although the Genelec apears to be a decent sub looking at the specifications Its cutoff is 19Hz. And its max SPL is only 108db. Its a plastic enclosure so not as ridged as wood as well it only weighs 57lbs. For that kind of money you would get a much better sub like this SVS PB13Ultra.

The PB13u can go lower than 16Hz, has a 1000watt DSP amp, weighs 150lbs and costs $1999.
 

·
HTS Moderator , Reviewer
Joined
·
3,342 Posts
From everything I've read the Genelec subwoofers have fantastic sound quality, but they're certainly not a value-based product (where price to performance ratio is considered good). I wouldn't be concerned by their non-wood enclosure though; I very seriously doubt they engineered something that's a compromise. If anything, it would be better than MDF.


2. Size requirements/limits: I think an 8" or 10" sub should be sufficient - should have freq response down to 21 or 22 hz. with the best fidelity/accuracy/transparency, tight clean distortion free bass is my most important criterion - not loudness/SPL.
This, unfortunately, is not terribly realistic; few 12" subwoofers can hit 20Hz with legitimate authority, let alone a 10". Forget an 8" subwoofer.

The SVS PB13 Ultra that tonyvbd suggested is certainly worth considering, but small it's not. That may complicate the WAF issue. However, that leaves you with a bit of a quandary... assuming you want to use just one subwoofer your room size dictates a ported unit, which will help ensure sufficient output to fill that large a space. If you can go duals then something like the SB13 Ultra would be better, but that won't come close to your budget.

Based upon the same criteria -- a large ported sub and a smaller sealed one -- another potential option is the Rythmik FV15HP and the F15HP. Both are renowned for their precision, and would more than likely satisfy all your needs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
60 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
@tonvdb - thanks for the suggestion... although I never thought "heft" - not just SPL but literally in weight of unit mattered...

@theJman - I agree Genelec may be charging a premium for their patented Laminar Spiral Enclosure (they may have a limited window to cash-in before other sub-makers can copy)

SVS, Rythmik and HSU - anyone else? How about KK Dxd808? (Ken Kreisel)
any other such little known but hi-quality sub-makers?

fidelity is the only criteria for me - not oomph or heft or loudness - plus additional features like power on signal and bass management would be nice..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
492 Posts
@tonvdb - thanks for the suggestion... although I never thought "heft" - not just SPL but literally in weight of unit mattered...

@theJman - I agree Genelec may be charging a premium for their patented Laminar Spiral Enclosure (they may have a limited window to cash-in before other sub-makers can copy)

SVS, Rythmik and HSU - anyone else? How about KK Dxd808? (Ken Kreisel)
any other such little known but hi-quality sub-makers?

fidelity is the only criteria for me - not oomph or heft or loudness - plus additional features like power on signal and bass management would be nice..
I agree with tony and jman SVS has what your looking for, there subs are known for there flat fq, clean sound, customer service, and there subs are considered by many to be bulletproof. Check them out they might be what your looking for. Another sub manufacturer u could check into is PSA (power sound audio).
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
15,054 Posts
I think Jim said enough about the 808 so I wont say more. The thing you need to know is that a sub needs size to preform correctly particularly in a large open space such as you have.
If you want to feel any low end (below 30Hz) your going to need to go big. A small sub simply wont move enough air to be effective. I own the SVS PB13U and can attest to its ability to not only preform excellent with music but also sound like the movie studio audio engineers wanted it to.
I know its larger than you want but it can be placed out of site or can be used as an end table.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
60 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Thanks folks - I'm wondering if someone did a shoot-out of subs with Genelec 7060 as one of the contenders and how it fared. I'm considering KK DXD808 vs Genelec 7060.
Its important that the brand have a storied past or a legend behind it. Apart from the SQ, Hi-Fi etc I'd want the bragging rights of finding that unique brand (for eg BMW) that is not exactly for the common man but for only those in the know with a truly refined taste. Genelec seems to have it and KK to an extent (assuming KKs are made in USA)

SVS, HSU etc seem too common...and if SVS has a dealership in India - its gotta be as common as a Toyota Corolla or Honda Civic
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
15,054 Posts
Trust me, SVS is truly one of the top players in sub design. They are not "common" they simply have a distributor in India and yes even up here in Canada that does not make them run of the mill by any means. As a matter of fact you wont find many boutique shops that even know anything about them simply because they dont sell to dealers only internet direct. That keeps the quality high and the cost down for the end user.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,363 Posts
Thanks folks - I'm wondering if someone did a shoot-out of subs with Genelec 7060 as one of the contenders and how it fared. I'm considering KK DXD808 vs Genelec 7060.
Its important that the brand have a storied past or a legend behind it. Apart from the SQ, Hi-Fi etc I'd want the bragging rights of finding that unique brand (for eg BMW) that is not exactly for the common man but for only those in the know with a truly refined taste. Genelec seems to have it and KK to an extent (assuming KKs are made in USA)

SVS, HSU etc seem too common...and if SVS has a dealership in India - its gotta be as common as a Toyota Corolla or Honda Civic
Really…
 

·
HTS Moderator , Reviewer
Joined
·
3,342 Posts
Thanks folks - I'm wondering if someone did a shoot-out of subs with Genelec 7060 as one of the contenders and how it fared. I'm considering KK DXD808 vs Genelec 7060.

Its important that the brand have a storied past or a legend behind it. Apart from the SQ, Hi-Fi etc I'd want the bragging rights of finding that unique brand (for eg BMW) that is not exactly for the common man but for only those in the know with a truly refined taste. Genelec seems to have it and KK to an extent (assuming KKs are made in USA)

SVS, HSU etc seem too common...and if SVS has a dealership in India - its gotta be as common as a Toyota Corolla or Honda Civic
SVS makes good subwoofers, so your worries are unfounded. Having a dealer is often a prerequisite to establishing a sales channel in some countries. ID in the USA and in other places isn't the same. Don't forget Rythmik either - they're famous for their precision and transient response.

Regarding the 808... you're going to need a co-located pair in order to handle a room that size. A single won't do it. I wasn't sure if you accounted for that in your assessment.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
60 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
@JBrax - not sure what u were trying to say...

ok will give rythmik and svs a shot...any idea where they are made?
as it is the 808 seemed like overkill due to excessive untreated room reflectivity and WAF would scream too loud
and its already at the max of my budget...

I started with a budget of $2.5k for 5.1ch w/ receivers

now I'm at $6.5k for just 5.1ch and dropped amps/receivers and will instead get a good sound card for my HTPC...
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
15,054 Posts
The sub and speakers should be a fair bit of your budget. As without good speakers it does not matter what equipment you have it wont produce its full potential.
That said There are far better options for speakers than what your getting for the money. But if something that is built in wall is what you need those options are limited.

What are you looking at getting for the receiver/processor?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
60 Posts
Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
@tonyvdb - the Genelec 8040 costs about $2200 a pair and 8030 about the same for 3...
which other active speakers offers the same or better fidelity at a lower price and is a reputed brand and not made in china

I've already considered Focal CMS65, 50 and ADAM A7X and they were runner-ups in the shootout. Mackies, KRK, Behringer etc were shortlisted but not tried.

i'm going active speakers because - i can eliminate the box amps (and save about $600) and not have to worry about the amp units claimed vs actual ratings, quality, fidelity, distortion and noise... in any case i have to run speaker wires to the speakers so i'll run some power wires too

and i'm probably gonna eliminate the processor too and just build my own HTPC with a good sound card...(any good resources for this?)

@Jman..
are you sure...if svs and rythmik are not made in America - then they are out of the list for me...

do u know where the KK DXD 808s are made?

how about these:
http://small.linncdn.com/product-catalogue/documents/Linn_Klimax_345_Product_Information.pdf
http://www.vandersteen.com/2w_specifications.pdf
have u heard or heard of the above?
 

·
HTS Moderator , Reviewer
Joined
·
3,342 Posts
@Jman..
are you sure...if svs and rythmik are not made in America - then they are out of the list for me...

do u know where the KK DXD 808s are made?
China. Very few companies are domestic sourced for all of their components. PowerSound Audio is the only one I'm aware of (assuming you're OK with the amp coming from Canada).
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
15,054 Posts
I would bet to say that the Genelec's are made in China or some other country. The may very well be assembled in the USA but the parts would very likely be made off shore as are most things as stated above.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
60 Posts
Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
@tonyvdb - the Genelecs - its probable that most of the electronics come from Taiwan or China but as a whole on the back of the speakers it says "made in finland"

@theJman - yes some parts especially some electronics from the Far-east is fine - as long as it is mostly made in North America or Europe...
and so PowerSound gets on the list right away.. which models should I consider?

The ADAM Sub8 and Sub10 are now on my list. Where are Velodyne, Quad, Vandersteen, Linn subs made?

anybody else making good subs in North America or Europe?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,697 Posts
as it is the 808 seemed like overkill due to excessive untreated room reflectivity and WAF would scream too loud
and its already at the max of my budget...
Room reflections are only a concern above the Schroeder Frequency (think of a pool ball bouncing around the table). Subwoofers handle the frequencies below Schroeder, and behave quite differently (think a bubble, or balloon).

and i'm probably gonna eliminate the processor too and just build my own HTPC with a good sound card...(any good resources for this?)

how about these:
http://small.linncdn.com/product-catalogue/documents/Linn_Klimax_345_Product_Information.pdf
http://www.vandersteen.com/2w_specifications.pdf
have u heard or heard of the above?
Here is a great resource: Computers | HTPC | Media Servers

I've never heard Linn subs, but I'm going to guess it will take multiples for that size of sub. Same with the Vandersteen, which I have heard, great sub but you will need at least two.
 
1 - 20 of 59 Posts
Top