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Winter Mist is a measured neutral gray paint. It is lighter at an N9 shade. It will not perform like wbassett's "Gray Screen" does in ambient light but it will be better than a white screen. You can apply a matte polyurethane top coat to any base latex, so you could top coat the Winter Mist. It will provide a very durable protective coating and add a little gain boost.

Here are a couple of photos to consider:


When I was investigating the Behr sheens I used these rough surface panels to demonstrate how a flat paint can tolerate surface blemishes. Roller texture is no exception. Due to the very wide viewing angle of a flat latex, texture is also invisible.

Take a look at these same two panels in the photo bellow.


These are the same two panels as shown above. The left one has a couple of coats of flat gray latex on it. The right one has had the same latex paint applied but a poly top coat was added. The poly top coat introduces a gain that is angle sensitive. It is not a sharp a sensitivity as a pearl clear coat or a metallic paint like SF though. It is however sensitive enough to make the very rough substrate much more visible than a flat paint alone.

The bottom line is that a flat or matte finish wall paint will not make the roller texture or wall blemishes visible in the image. Adding a polyurethane top coat will make significant wall blemishes more visible but in my experience it does not make the roller texture visible.

I think the choice of True Value Winter Mist is a good start over point for you. You may want to do a bit of sanding and priming first. I would suggest you paint a couple of sample panels 2'x4' while you are painting your screen. If you are inclined to try a polyurethane top coat then try it on the sample panel first. If you are starting to feel more adventurous down the road and want to try a Pearl Clear Coat then try it on the other sample panel first.
 

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I should reiterate wbassett's first recommendation. Do as MM has advised you. Apply the two thicker coats with a roller and sand the surface smooth with a wet sanding sponge. That should remove any trace of roller texture. The two thick coats are to provide enough thickness for you to sand without going through the SF.

A sprayed top coat of SF should then be very smooth and have not texture. As wbassett suggested , let it cure for a week or so. Then if you are not happy you could consider alternatives.
 

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Discussion Starter #63
I should reiterate wbassett's first recommendation. Do as MM has advised you. Apply the two thicker coats with a roller and sand the surface smooth with a wet sanding sponge. That should remove any trace of roller texture. The two thick coats are to provide enough thickness for you to sand without going through the SF.

A sprayed top coat of SF should then be very smooth and have not texture. As wbassett suggested , let it cure for a week or so. Then if you are not happy you could consider alternatives.
I did roll the two thick coats as suggested. Although I have not tried to sand it yet, I cannot imagine that any amount of wet sanding is going to correct the amount of texture I currently see when I fire up the projector. Then there is the issue of supply -- after 6 sprayed coats of SF and 2 "thickly" rolled coats it is just about gone. Possibly enough for a thinly sprayed final coat but again, I just do not have much hope for the SF screen. Even after these steps plus time for curing. However, I am going to follow the recommendations to completion before going in another direction.

Dumb question....is wet sanding simply soaking something like this (below) in water? I have a few of these in medium grade. Does wet sanding accomplish that much more than dry sanding? I have used these on the wall (following Kilz2 coats) and it just doesn't seem like they would do anything to get rid of my texture.

 

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Wet sanding keeps the grit clean and helps paint from building up. When that happens you're no longer sanding where it's all clogged so you're not getting even sweeps.

Is it a dual 3M sanding block? I use the coarser side to knock the large areas down and then the fine side to smooth everything out.

If this doesn't eliminate it and you still have too much texture, I personally would go to liner paper and put a very thin skim coating of drywall mud along the seam between the two sheets of liner paper. You'll get an very smooth finish this way and once primed you're set to apply any paint application you want. :)
 

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I did roll the two thick coats as suggested. Although I have not tried to sand it yet, I cannot imagine that any amount of wet sanding is going to correct the amount of texture I currently see when I fire up the projector. Then there is the issue of supply -- after 6 sprayed coats of SF and 2 "thickly" rolled coats it is just about gone. Possibly enough for a thinly sprayed final coat but again, I just do not have much hope for the SF screen. Even after these steps plus time for curing. However, I am going to follow the recommendations to completion before going in another direction.

Dumb question....is wet sanding simply soaking something like this (below) in water? I have a few of these in medium grade. Does wet sanding accomplish that much more than dry sanding? I have used these on the wall (following Kilz2 coats) and it just doesn't seem like they would do anything to get rid of my texture.

To answer your question - yes. You would soak it in a bucket of water. Keep the bucket around as you should dip it in and rinse it out occasionally. We definitely need to see a shot of this texture. It is drywall isn't it?

mech
 

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Discussion Starter #66
To answer your question - yes. You would soak it in a bucket of water. Keep the bucket around as you should dip it in and rinse it out occasionally. We definitely need to see a shot of this texture. It is drywall isn't it?
Yep, drywall with what I always considered a normal/medium texture. Here is a shot that I took from up close approx 2 feet away before I started the project. This is unedited except for a slight boost to brightness since lighting was not good.

 

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12th,

Apparently your google image thing didn't work. I downloaded it, saved it and re-uploaded to my photobucket account. I edited it in your post from there. You may want to try photobucket or webshots or something similar. I couldn't tell you why the google link doesn't work but it didn't.

That does not seem like much texture to me. Anyone else? Is that the SF on it now?

mech
 

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Discussion Starter #68
If this doesn't eliminate it and you still have too much texture, I personally would go to liner paper and put a very thin skim coating of drywall mud along the seam between the two sheets of liner paper. You'll get an very smooth finish this way and once primed you're set to apply any paint application you want. :)
A little extra work but this sounds like a good approach for whatever screen application I end up going with (as you said). So I've been reading up on liner paper and found some of your old posts on the old forum with good information. Is wallpaper paste the recommended way to get it on the wall? Then I would skim some drywall compound over the seams, sand and put a few layers of primer down? If the paper comes in rolls that are 26" wide I would need three rolls for my approx 62" tall screen.

How thick is the paper? Does the texture not come through the paper at all?
 

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Discussion Starter #69
12th,

Apparently your google image thing didn't work. I downloaded it, saved it and re-uploaded to my photobucket account. I edited it in your post from there. You may want to try photobucket or webshots or something similar. I couldn't tell you why the google link doesn't work but it didn't.

That does not seem like much texture to me. Anyone else? Is that the SF on it now?

mech
I have PhotoBucket and will use that going forward. That is just my builder beige wall before I touched it with anything. Again, the photo is a little dark but I did not give any thought to lighting, camera settings or editing because, quite frankly, I didn't think I would be analyzing this particular photo 2 weeks after the project started. :bigsmile:
 

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Next time you photograph texture, place something in the image for size reference. I find a pencil works well. It is difficult for me to judge the texture from that photo because I have no idea how much area is shown.
 

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One more thing before I go :sleep:. Wilsonart laminates have that much texture on them. I can't see how that'd be that big of a deal. But let's wait for the painters to chime in first.

mech
Doesn't look bad to me either. But, if this particular paint application doesn't work, it'll be blamed on 12th Man because

[IMPERSONATION]
"he ain't got a skreen as smoooth as a baby butt like he's s'posed to...how can he 'spect the light to fuze when his skreen looks like the fargin' Rocky Mountins?"
[/IMPERSONATION]

In all seriousness...from what I've read, that mix is tough to work with (I believe I've read somewhere that it's a b*tch to work with) and very sensitive to doing one of MANY things wrong. So much metallic...oh the shiny, metal woes.

I'm pulling for you 12th Man...hope you get it worked out. It sucks to put this much effort into something and have it not turn out the way you want it to. Like others have said, maybe it'll be OK if you finish the application and let it cure???
 

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Discussion Starter #73
Here are a few shots on the SF screen. Apologies for the bad photography but the sun was going down and I tend to think the pics make it look worse than it does in person. Just wanted to give you guys a better point of reference.


 

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There seems to be a lot of surface sheen. It is that surface sheen that will make the textured surface more visible.

What were the ingredients and quantities?
 

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Discussion Starter #75
The "high gain" recipe was just added to the main thread 2 weeks ago around the time I started my project. Based on the instructions I was given before they published it, I used a little more pearl (42 oz) but everything else is basically the same and was followed strictly. Hope I am not stepping on toes by posting this here but it is publicly available on the other forum.

"SILVER FIRE HG" (High Gain)*

(base components)
36 oz. Delta Ceramcoat Pearl #02601
12 oz. Delta Ceramcoat Silver Metallic #02603
8 oz. Delta Pale Metallic Gold #02624
7 oz. Behr Interior UPW Flat #1050 (or Exterior #4050)

(viscosity components)
24 oz. Distilled / Tap Water
20 oz. Minwax Polycrylic - Satin Finish

(color components)
30 ml Delta Cardinal Red #02077
18 ml Windsor & Newtwon "Galleria" - Pthalo Green (PG7)
12 ml Delta Ultra Blue #02038
4 oz. Distilled / Tap Water

* use only .75oz of color components.
 

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67.5% = Metallic Paints = 56 oz.
24% = Polyurethane = 20 oz.
8.4% = Behr UPW #1050 = 7 oz.


The other metallic mixes that I am familiar with such as RS-MaxxMudd and my own White Pearl mix were ratios as follows:

57% = Metallic Paints = 8 parts
28.5% = Polyurethane = 4 Parts
14% = Behr UPW #1050 = 2 Parts


It is hard to imagine how this would not result in a very shinny surface. The only flattening ingredient in the mix is the UPW and it has been reduced to 8.4% from 14%.

I also thought they had switched over to the Behr Matte Poly.
 

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Discussion Starter #77 (Edited)
wbassett, can you look at post #68 above and comment?

I really like the liner paper idea as a way to make sure texture is not a factor in whatever screen application I try next. To clarify, is the drywall compound only applied at the seams and sanded or do you spread a thin coat over the entire surface of the paper?

Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter #78 (Edited)
Cynical2 [IMPERSONATION said:
"he ain't got a skreen as smoooth as a baby butt like he's s'posed to...how can he 'spect the light to fuze when his skreen looks like the fargin' Rocky Mountins?"
[/IMPERSONATION]
I got a good chuckle out of that. :bigsmile:

Like others have said, maybe it'll be OK if you finish the application and let it cure???
I did finish out the application using the "last ditch" suggestions he provided. Granted it has only been a few days but I have observed no change in the projected image and the amplification of the wall texture. It's time to try something else.

Honestly, since I am very familiar with the process and instructions, I would probably consider giving SF another try once my texture issues are resolved if not for the relatively expensive sum of all the parts I would need to buy again, if I had a reason to keep the Wagner, and most importantly, if I was highly confident that I would get different and desired results next time.
 

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wbassett, can you look at post #68 above and comment?

I really like the liner paper idea as a way to make sure texture is not a factor in whatever screen application I try next. To clarify, is the drywall compound only applied at the seams and sanded or do you spread a thin coat over the entire surface of the paper?

Thanks!
Just the seam unless when you see low spots when you look across it from the sides. In my case I don't have drywall and the lathe and plaster did have some minor low spots.

I used premixed mud that came in a gallon bucket and a 12" trowel to spread it very thin over the seam. With a wide trowel and going light with the mud you can almost get it smooth enough, but definitely sand it smooth! You only need the fine side of a 3M sanding block, the coarse side will take too much off and leave grooves in the mud.

Tip: Don't put the mud up until the glue on the liner paper is fully dry. You may even see some bubbles in the paper which may freak you out, but if you have wallpaper paste all over the back side of the liner paper, it will pull in when it dries. That's really what takes the longest... waiting for things to dry. That screen you see in the thread Working with Rough Walls only took a week working on it in my spare time from start to finish and watching a movie. If you were to work on this over a weekend, you could probably knock it out before Monday.

I'll take a look at post #68 in a bit, work is being hectic today.
 

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A little extra work but this sounds like a good approach for whatever screen application I end up going with (as you said). So I've been reading up on liner paper and found some of your old posts on the old forum with good information. Is wallpaper paste the recommended way to get it on the wall? Then I would skim some drywall compound over the seams, sand and put a few layers of primer down? If the paper comes in rolls that are 26" wide I would need three rolls for my approx 62" tall screen.

How thick is the paper? Does the texture not come through the paper at all?
Here is the link to Working with Rough Walls.

Everything is outlined there, but for quick answers, it's not a lot of extra work, but tedious waiting for things to dry and putting the liner paper up is a two person job.

You can get the liner paper at Lowes or any wallpaper store. Unfortunately Home Depot doesn't sell it anymore. It is thick, but workable. It is made specifically to cover rough walls, concrete, cinder blocks, and paneling prior to painting or putting wall paper up so you have a smooth surface. It comes in a roll that's 26" wide by around 30' long. That's enough for at least two 52x92 screens. You're screen is larger so you'll need three strips and then mark off the screen from there. You should be able to do it with one roll.
 
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