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Well I used butt joints and I do cabinetry work as a side hobby... :dunno:

It'd be a lot easier for folks who aren't comfortable with or own a miter saw. You're going to see the joints irregardless, whether they're mitered or butt. But you have to look closely to see them.

As for the measurements, the inside of your velvet frame matches your measured screen size.

mech
 

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My neurosis has flared up again. I measured the projected image at a width of 110.5". I found the following formula on AVS and when I work out the numbers they are slightly off from yours. What is the formula you used for the above measurements?

Here's the formula from AVS --

h=height, w=width, d=diagonal

h = d / 2.04
w = 1.78 x d / 2.04

So using my very limited and rusty algebra skills and the width formula shown above I worked back to calculate the diagonoal at 126.64" based on my measured image width of 110.5".

Then using the height formula above I get 62.07" which is VERY close to your first calculation (below) but the widths seem more off (110.5 vs. 110.22), or are they?

[PIE]62.00" x 110.22" (about 110 1/4), gives a screen diagonal of 126.46"[/PIE]

I know we are splitting hairs here and I will ultimately be able to zoom to fill the whole screen so this is just thinking things through out loud as much as anything but if you have any last minute input I'd love to hear it. Making the cuts tonight after work. :bigsmile:
I'm not using an online calculator...I'm using a spreadsheet that I made.

I used 16:9 exactly...they used 1.78.

16/9 is 1.77777778.

I'd suggest you do the following before cutting any wood (two person job, so grab your wife or a buddy):

(1) On a projected image, measure the two diagonals to make sure they match (i.e. make sure the diagonal measurement from the bottom-right corner of the image to top-left corner of the image matches the measurement from the bottom-left corner to the top-right corner).

(2) Take two horizontal measurements (one near the top of the image, one near the bottom) and make sure they match

(3) Take two vertical measurements (one near the left edge of the image, and one near the right edge) and make sure they match.

Only after all 3 pairs of measurements match will you know that you have a perfectly shaped rectangle with perfect 90-degree corners...and you're ready to measure the image for your frame.

Then, measure the height of your image and the width of your image. Make the inside of the frame that size (just forget about the calculations...what's important is that the frame matches the image you're projecting).

You may want to make the inside of the frame just SLIGHTLY smaller than the measurements you take so that the image just overlaps onto the frame. That way, you ensure that there are no gaps between the image and the frame. You can also just accomplish that by zooming the image slightly, if your projector does that.

Oh, and I agree with mech that butt joints are fine if you're wrapping it with velvet, and much easier to execute. I should mention that some people claim that miter cuts (45 degree cuts) look more professional, but I think that for the average DIY'er, a butt-joint will look nicer overall. A perfectly executed miter joint might look slightly better than a perfectly executed butt joint (and that's debateable...the velvet probably makes the joint type almost inperceivable unless you are looking for it), but cutting two 45's to match perfectly to create a 90-degree corner is not as simple as you might think unless you own very expensive equipment that is extremely accurate. My $400 compound miter saw doesn't make perfect 45-degree cuts. The "average Joe" more realistically has the choice of having a poorly executed miter joint or a well-executed butt-joint...and the butt joint will look better in that comparison.

One piece of advice...if you're using butt-joints, the first thing you should do is to nip the end off of each board, and measure from that. Factory ends on lumber are oftentimes not square (may be 85-95 degrees, instead of 90 degrees exactly), so start with a nice square end that you make yourself. If you're averse to cutting the ends to start with, at a minimum put a carpenter's square on the end to check squareness before you start. Personally, I just nip the end(s) off of every piece of lumber that I buy, unless for some reason I absolutely need the full length of the board.
 

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Discussion Starter #124
Thanks as always! I said at the beginning that I am not a handy man and this has been quite a learning experience. I'm a little embarrassed about all the hand holding and seemingly silly questions but here is one more. Last one for the day, I promise...

Any recommendations for securing the butt joints? I was planning on "L" brackets with the mitered corners so should I stay along those lines and look for a straight bracket? Nails?

:hail:
 

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I haven't been through the process of hanging a frame yet...but to be honest with you I don't see where you gain anything by assembling the frame before mounting (someone with more experience may disagree?). If you put an L-bracket at the corners to assemble the frame, then the frame won't sit flush to the wall (unless you remove material in the back of the frame to make up for the thickness of the bracket). I think I would just nail up each board separately. To make sure that you have a bit of "margin of safety" in the mounting, and can make the last board that you mount flush with the two other boards that it would be touching, I think I'd cut the boards like this:



That will give you any wiggle room you need if something is very slightly off (which it will be).

So, I'd wrap each board in velvet individually and then mount them individually.

And, no worries on the questions...the questions regarding building things out of wood I can handle. I've done a lot of that type of work. But, on the painting, I asked Todd and company TONS of questions...we all have our own skills that we start with, and depend on others to help in our weak areas. Luckily, this forum is a great place to get that help, from some very knowledgeable guys that are willing to help us newbies out.

So, ask away.

:dancebanana::dancebanana::dancebanana:
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:dancebanana::dancebanana::dancebanana:
:dancebanana::dancebanana:
:dancebanana::dancebanana::dancebanana:​
 

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Thanks as always! I said at the beginning that I am not a handy man and this has been quite a learning experience. I'm a little embarrassed about all the hand holding and seemingly silly questions but here is one more. Last one for the day, I promise...

Any recommendations for securing the butt joints? I was planning on "L" brackets with the mitered corners so should I stay along those lines and look for a straight bracket? Nails?

:hail:
'L' brackets are what I used. Each piece was cut and wrapped in velvet and then all connected via the brackets. I then attached it to my laminate framing. I did not stagger any joints as Jim has in his drawing. Top and bottom boards were full width and the verticals fit inside on the edges.

mech
 

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[img]http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l190/wbassett/HTS/Borders%20and%20Mounts/connector_plates.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l190/wbassett/HTS/Borders%20and%20Mounts/connector_plate_example.jpg[/img]


12th, if you go with butt joints you can use the rectangular bracing connectors which may be more stable. Of course mitered corners look nicer, but you could always go with a velvet ribbon tape and cut 45 degree angles on the velvet ribbon itself which would give a mitered look.









Here is some Velvet and DuvePro Ribbon.
 

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mech, I agree if you're doing a laminate screen then you want to assemble it first. But if you're just putting a frame around a painted wall then I'm not sure if it helps to assemble first.
 

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mech, I agree if you're doing a laminate screen then you want to assemble it first. But if you're just putting a frame around a painted wall then I'm not sure if it helps to assemble first.
Yep! It really depends upon the one doing the work. However they want to proceed. There's a lot of things that could effect one way or the other. For example, I think putting the frame up piece meal is a good idea. However, if there are no studs behind the vertical pieces you don't want to have to toenail these sections.

mech
 

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So you'd put nails through your velvet? How's that going to look? Won't the nails/holes be visible?
From post 98:

cynical2 said:
I don't know of any great mounting options, and haven't been through the framing process myself (yet). But, if you're going to wrap it in velvet I've read multiple times that you can just nail it up with small finishing nails. The nap of the velvet will apparently cover up the nails. If you have a compressor, just put it on about 125psi and blow some small brads right through the velvet. If you are using a hammer, you'll need to use a punch to sink the nails through the velvet and bury the head in the wood.

Here's a link to a post I made with another mounting option that is only applicable in some situations (depending on your home's configuration).

Whatever you do, you want to make sure that the frame is completely flush to the wall. You don't want light leaking between the wall and frame...(at least my intuition is that would be a bad thing). So, it doesn't seem to me like velcro would be the best solution. Hopefully someone else will chime in.

One thing I've thought about doing, to deal with any irregularities in the "flatness" of the wall, is to get a roll of soft foam weather stripping tape (comes in about 1/2" width at HD or Lowe's) and taping it to the back side of the frame. It compresses to completely flat (it's very porous), but will also fill any gaps anywhere the frame isn't perfectly flush to the wall. Here's a linklink to what I'm talking about. This will make it where no light can leak between the frame and wall, even if either the frame or the wall isn't perfectly flat.
The key is to use small finishing nails (if you're not familiar with finishing nails then go to HD or Lowe's and ask the guy to show them to you)...they have a very small head, and shouldn't leave a visible hole in the velvet.

Use your hammer to nail through until they are just about flush with the velvet, and then use a punch to drive it through the velvet and bury the head of the nail in the wood. The nap of the velvet will cover the hole (so they say).
 

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Yep! It really depends upon the one doing the work. However they want to proceed. There's a lot of things that could effect one way or the other. For example, I think putting the frame up piece meal is a good idea. However, if there are no studs behind the vertical pieces you don't want to have to toenail these sections.

mech
Mech, agreed...in my case I've got a compressor and finish nail gun and wouldn't be overly concerned about a stud being behind the vertical pieces for a lightweight board. I'd just blow enough finishing nails at different angles that I'd have it tight to the wall...even if I'm just going into drywall. And, I wouldn't have to worry about it moving.

But, if I had to use a hammer and punch, I may be inclined (like your approach) to put it together first...then the top and bottom pieces can be put into studs.

So, 12th man, if you have a compressor, I still think you'd be OK without assembling...but if you don't, it may be best to assemble the whole thing 1st. If you assemble it, make sure you take the measurements across diagonals before attaching the frame members to each other as you're putting it together to make sure that you are building the screen perfectly square.

And, if you go the assembled route...once assembled, nail the top and bottom boards into studs on the wall (use a stud finder to find them...or look for drywall nails in the wall...another hint is that electrical outlets have a stud either just to the right or just to the left of them...when all else fails, you can also just probe the wall with a small finishing nail until you hit a stud...do this by testing every 1 1/2" in a horizontal line that will be covered by either the top or bottom of your screen frame). Once you locate one stud, remember they're (very likely) on 16" spacing. So, if you find one, you can measure over 16, 32, 48, and 64" and be relatively confident there's also a stud at those locations.

Make sure your finishing nails are long enough to go through the thickness of your poplar + 1/2" drywall + go 3/4" - 1" into your stud...so, something like 2 1/4" long. I'd probably put about 3-4 in the top and 3-4 in the bottom.
 

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12th,

Do you have a stud finder? Again, make sure you're nailing into a stud. And I wouldn't go to small on the nail either as it has to hold this frame up. It needs to be long enough to grip into the 2X4 behind the sheetrock.

You could just liquid nail it as well.

mech
 

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Discussion Starter #134
I do have an electronic stud finder but I have no idea if the vertical boards for the area I painted would be over studs. But as long as I can get a few nails in studs on the horizontal pieces it should be OK even if the vertical boards are nailed to drywall. Right?

My preference would be to wrap each board and nail them up individually to get the best fit between pieces and to the projected image. I like that approach a lot more than attaching than using the 18" hangman mount I bought which would keep the frame from being flat against the wall.

Do they make finish nails in black? Or, I guess it wouldn't matter if I will be following behind the nail gun with a tap. Much ado about nothing! :coocoo:
 

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I do have an electronic stud finder but I have no idea if the vertical boards for the area I painted would be over studs. But as long as I can get a few nails in studs on the horizontal pieces it should be OK even if the vertical boards are nailed to drywall. Right?

Doubtful. That's why there's such a thing called wall anchors.

My preference would be to wrap each board and nail them up individually to get the best fit between pieces and to the projected image. I like that approach a lot more than attaching than using the 18" hangman mount I bought which would keep the frame from being flat against the wall.

You wouldn't use a hangman. You'd assemble the frame utilizing the "L" brackets and then nail the top and bottom pieces into studs.

Do they make finish nails in black? Or, I guess it wouldn't matter if I will be following behind the nail gun with a tap. Much ado about nothing! :coocoo:
I wouldn't use a nail gun when shooting into drywall only. Good Luck!

mech
 

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Discussion Starter #136
I got the hangman idea from a thread a AVS where several people said it worked well for hanging their frame. So with the assembled approach using L brackets, are you saying that I would only have to nail the horizontal pieces (into studs) and do nothing with the vertical boards? Or did I make that up?
 

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Discussion Starter #138
Well, I have the frame wrapped in velvet and pretty much ready to hang.

Time for one last paint question before I do that. I have 3 smooth coats of Kilz2 and really do like the image as is. Looks better than my original picture on the beige wall and WAY better than the Silver Fire disaster. :bigsmile: So would UPW #1050 + 2 poly topcoats make it even better? Or would the difference be very marginal? How many coats of UPW to roll?
 

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Well, I have the frame wrapped in velvet and pretty much ready to hang.

Time for one last paint question before I do that. I have 3 smooth coats of Kilz2 and really do like the image as is. Looks better than my original picture on the beige wall and WAY better than the Silver Fire disaster. :bigsmile: So would UPW #1050 + 2 poly topcoats make it even better? Or would the difference be very marginal? How many coats of UPW to roll?
Tiddler is the best to answer this question...I can tell you that he recommends 2 coats of paint. I can also tell you that UPW + poly should provide a slight gain boost over the Kilz. You may want to read through the Pearl topcoat thread, too...it's another possibility.
 

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Well, I have the frame wrapped in velvet and pretty much ready to hang.

Time for one last paint question before I do that. I have 3 smooth coats of Kilz2 and really do like the image as is. Looks better than my original picture on the beige wall and WAY better than the Silver Fire disaster. :bigsmile: So would UPW #1050 + 2 poly topcoats make it even better? Or would the difference be very marginal? How many coats of UPW to roll?
I am not familiar with the Kilz2 since I have been unable to locate any here in Ottawa. Since it is considered a good paint for a matte white screen I can't see the point in covering it with UPW. If the Kilz2 is a smooth uniform matte finish, I would only consider a poly top coat or pearl top coat. A top coat or two of matte poly would provide a gentle gain boost and a protective coating. A pearl clear coat, which is simply matte poly with pearlizing medium added, would increase the gain boost a bit more and does seem to give a more uniform gain profile across the screen.

Given your bad experiences with metallic paints, I would imagine you are a bit shy to try anything that is not a pretty sure thing. So here are some options and my take on how sure they are.

  1. Leave the Kilz2 Primer as is, very sure thing, could get dirty though.
  2. Apply poly top coat, applied just like the Kilz2 so very sure thing, durable surface and gentle gain boost.
  3. Apply poly with one 2oz. bottle of Folkart Metallic White Pearl added. Applied as the Kilz2 was, fairly sure thing, slightly more gain boost.
  4. Apply pearl clear coat, that's one 2oz. bottle of Folkart Pearlizing Medium or two 2oz. bottles of Folkart Metallic White Pearl to the quart of poly, requires down rolling, possibility of streaks if not down rolled properly. This would provide maximum gain boost as well as a protective coating.
My recommendation is that you at least apply one top coat of the Behr Matte Polyurethane #780 to protect the porous surface of the Kilz2 primer. #2

If you want to add some gain without too much risk then throw in a 2oz. bottle of white pearl and consider practicing on a 2'x4' sample panel just to sure. #3

Only if you are will to practice on a sample panel or two, should you consider the addition of pearlizing medium or 2 bottles of white pearl. When applying a pearl clear coat to the screen is NOT the time to determine if you have the down rolling techniques understood and can do it. #4

I am being a bit cautious with my recommendations because you have been disappointed enough by your DIY screen painting experiences. If you are pretty happy with the Kilz2 as is and really don't see why you would do any more then just poly top coat it to make it more washable and longer lasting. Of the handful of different paints I have played with, the Behr Matte Polyurethane #780 was by far the smooths to apply, and leveled out to an amazingly smooth finish with no sheen (stir it well). If you have rolled a good surface using the Kilz2, I have no doubt that you could apply the poly and produce a very smooth uniform finish.

P.S. For those who may have noticed I suggested using the Folkart Metallic White Pearl as a source of mica flakes, I only did this considering it is a white base layer (Kilz2) and any lightening caused by the white base in the White Pearl would be irrelevant.
 
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