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Looking to buy a new or 2 powered subs for my living room.

21” X 35’ (open to kitchen) with 15’ ceilings
1500.00 budget total
like to stay with a size that is no more 15 x 15

My old sunfire true subs are getting long of tooth.

Been looking at SVS 3000 series. Like one SB 3000 or 2 of the new mini 3000 dual speaker servo subs.

Any suggestions? We do not play anything to reference levels any more as we enjoy having a conversation during music play or movie watching

My HT receiver does 2 subs and is ATMOS with music an auto switch on one sub switches over to a TT system with separate amp and pre.

Thank you
 

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Sorry but there’s no way on earth the 3000 micro would do anything in that sized room. For your budget, a dual drive from HSU is probably your best bet for value.
Have to disagree a bit - If OP was happy with the small Sunfires and may have dropped his listening levels a bit, he might be more than happy with the 3000 Micros. No question that is a large space, but not everyone is looking to fully pressurize a space and get down to 10 hz.
 

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Have to disagree a bit - If OP was happy with the small Sunfires and may have dropped his listening levels a bit, he might be more than happy with the 3000 Micros. No question that is a large space, but not everyone is looking to fully pressurize a space and get down to 10 hz.
Fair enough. But I have to say, he may have been happy with the sunfires, sure. But that doesn’t mean he doesn’t know what he’s missing.
IMO/IME neither the SF OR the micro will do justice in that size space. They’re just not that good.
You are right however. Most people aren’t looking for 10hz couch shaking performance. But that might because they don’t know it’s even possible. There’s also WAF…gross
There is PLENTY of space in the middle. Doesn’t have to be tiny sealed, OR huge ported. Options galore.
The micro drops off at 40hz, and iirc he’s on concrete. The micro is close-ish to the sb1000, and should not be in the 3000 family. Imo the very least subs to use would be a pair of sb3000, or the ULS 15’s that Wayne mentioned. The HSU is probably better value overall. But I would look at a pair of fv18’s from Rythmik. We all have different use cases so there’s that…. IMO that micro would be a joke in that room but the good news is, SVS’s bill of rights is impeccable, if not a premium paid for by all their customers. He can try out whatever he wants for free!
 

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If you go with SVS subs, go ported. You need the efficiency of ported to get high output. For music, a single sub is ok but you will not get as good a spread of the subs effect as with a pair. I have 3 SVS 16 ultra SB subs and a ported old JBL 18 inch to improve the 40 to 90 cps range. Plenty of bass with even one of the 16 sealed ultras but no chest thump. I only use the subs for movies since the 15 inch woofers in my JBL ported mains cover the 30 cps up very well for music. My area is like yours 27 by 25 (with archway joining the kitchen/dining room with my living room) but only 8 ft ceilings. If you are not after 120 dB bass, go with sealed for a nice "smooth" sound but goes very low and under 20 cps for most of the SVS line of subs. The nice part with the svs line is you can trade up at any time. I added the old JBL and am trying to get an Anthem AVM 90 processor (ordered it over a year ago and now stuck coming across the Canadian border to US). It calibrates eq for 4 independant channels for the subs. I figured it would integrate the JBL ported speakers and the 18 inch JBL sub with the sealed SVS subs better. I bought that 18 inch JBL driver about 1980 and I am determined to make good use of it.
 

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Fair enough. But I have to say, he may have been happy with the sunfires, sure. But that doesn’t mean he doesn’t know what he’s missing.
IMO/IME neither the SF OR the micro will do justice in that size space. They’re just not that good.
You are right however. Most people aren’t looking for 10hz couch shaking performance. But that might because they don’t know it’s even possible. There’s also WAF…gross
There is PLENTY of space in the middle. Doesn’t have to be tiny sealed, OR huge ported. Options galore.
The micro drops off at 40hz, and iirc he’s on concrete. The micro is close-ish to the sb1000, and should not be in the 3000 family. Imo the very least subs to use would be a pair of sb3000, or the ULS 15’s that Wayne mentioned. The HSU is probably better value overall. But I would look at a pair of fv18’s from Rythmik. We all have different use cases so there’s that…. IMO that micro would be a joke in that room but the good news is, SVS’s bill of rights is impeccable, if not a premium paid for by all their customers. He can try out whatever he wants for free!
Quality of the 3000 Micros is excellent - not sure what you're getting at there. They extend to around 23 hz or so. I own both dual 3000 Micros and dual SB-1000s and they sound very similar in practice. Many people would be very happy with a setup with either in a smaller space.

But then again, lets remember what OP was asking for - something small and under $1500. What has generally been suggested in this thread so far is stuff considerably bigger. I think it is easy for people here to forget that most people don't want multiple subs the size of dorm refrigerators in their living room. Yes - they give you "more" - but most people don't want or need that. In fact, many people end up with rooms with too much bass energy, not too little.
 

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Whether you should have 1 or 2 subwoofers depends a lot on your crossover point. If the crossover point is 60 Hz and the slope is 12 dB/octave, you will be down 12 dB at 120 Hz... that's about the HIGHEST value I would consider as a crossover point. If you use 80 Hz or less as the crossover point, a single subwoofer will create a mono soundfield for sounds in the 90 Hz to 140 Hz range that will reduce spaciousness in the sound mix (if there is any). It is my experience that I can identify left from right from 90 Hz and up. Most people say bass gets monophonic at 100 Hz and lower even when there are multiple subs, but I find 60 Hz to be a better cutoff for me to maintain all the stereo sound properly. If you really need to use a crossover point of 80 Hz or higher to get the proper blend of subwoofer and regular speakers, I would recommend 2 subwoofers. If you find a 60 Hz or lower crossover point workable, you can do that and use a single subwoofer. How to determine what crossover point to use: Using manufacturer specs and test tones, determine the frequency were your main speakers start their bass roll-off. You want to find the point where the speakers are nominally -3 dB from their full bass output level... so if you measure 75 dB at 100 Hz and 72 dB at 90 Hz, your crossover point should be the -3 dB point, or 90 Hz in this example. You want the subwoofer and main speakers to both reach their -3 dB point at 90 Hz in this example. If you have large-ish L&R speakers that reproduce solid bass down to 40 Hz and they measure -3 dB at 35 Hz, 35 Hz would make the best crossover point. And a crossover frequency that low means you will never know the difference between 1 and 2 subwoofers as long as the 1 subwoofer you do need can produce the SPL you want/need.

Sealed subs are best sounding for music, but they have the LEAST bottom-end extension. You get the least amount of distortion in the bass from a sealed box but you are unlikely to get much output below 20 Hz from a sealed subwoofer unless the box is quite large. Ported subs almost always will play louder and go deeper than sealed box designs of similar cost. But ported subs also have more distortion in bass frequencies. Many ported subs come with 1 or more port plugs that allow you to tune the subwoofer. Hsu Research subs, for example, have 2 ports. You get 2 closed-cell foam port plugs so you can operate the sub with both ports plugged for music, and open 1 or 2 ports for movies. Best of both worlds. Other manufacturers MAY (or not) offer that flexibility too.

How low to audio frequencies go in Movies? The disc of "The Edge of Tomorrow" (Tom Cruise, Emily Blunt) has a sound effect that begins before the Village Roadshow logo at the beginning of the movie fades out to the movie... it starts around 40 Hz and slides down to 10 Hz. Below 14 Hz or so, you hear nothing, but it feels like somebody turned a fan on... the subwoofer moves a HUGE amount of air at 10 Hz with no detectable sound. The subwoofer doing this in my room is a Hsu Research sub, the least expensive model having a 15-inch driver... the VTF-3 Mk5 HP (currently priced at $909 plus $110 shipping in satin black). This sub has 2 ports and 2 port plugs so it can be used as a sealed, 1-port, or 2-port sub just by inserting or removing the port plugs. The only question is whether the volume of your space needs 2 subwoofers or not. You can always try a single sub first to find out if the bass levels you want/need are OK for your space and add a second sub only if it feels like a single sub isn't filling the space adequately. Of course if your main speakers will need a crossover at 80 Hz or higher, and you want to maintain maximum stereo separation into the bass, you would need 2 subwoofers, each fairly close to one of the main speakers (within a couple of feet if possible). With a single subwoofer, if the crossover frequency is 60 Hz or lower (80 Hz in a pinch), you should place the subwoofer between the L&R speakers to prevent pulling the stereo image to the left or right with an off-center sub. A single sub can be farther back or even closer than the main speakers as long as it is equal distance to the L&R speakers. Some people deal with large space volumes by placing the subwoofer behind or beside the main seat. Using this placement, you can get stupendously loud bass from a single subwoofer. With placement close to the listener, you lose all the effects of room modes and you hear the most linear bass possible, much more linear than the bass would be with the subwoofer placed farther out into the room. You do have to use careful/precise level-matching between the subwoofer and main speakers so the bass doesn't sound overpowering at the listening position. In most cases, placing the subwoofer close to the seat or sofa you use will induce bass resonances into your sofa/chair further making the bass sound realistic as powerful bass in real life does the same thing... resonates/vibrates whatever you are sitting on.
 

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Whether you should have 1 or 2 subwoofers depends a lot on your crossover point. If the crossover point is 60 Hz and the slope is 12 dB/octave, you will be down 12 dB at 120 Hz... that's about the HIGHEST value I would consider as a crossover point. If you use 80 Hz or less as the crossover point, a single subwoofer will create a mono soundfield for sounds in the 90 Hz to 140 Hz range that will reduce spaciousness in the sound mix (if there is any). It is my experience that I can identify left from right from 90 Hz and up. Most people say bass gets monophonic at 100 Hz and lower even when there are multiple subs, but I find 60 Hz to be a better cutoff for me to maintain all the stereo sound properly. If you really need to use a crossover point of 80 Hz or higher to get the proper blend of subwoofer and regular speakers, I would recommend 2 subwoofers. If you find a 60 Hz or lower crossover point workable, you can do that and use a single subwoofer. How to determine what crossover point to use: Using manufacturer specs and test tones, determine the frequency were your main speakers start their bass roll-off. You want to find the point where the speakers are nominally -3 dB from their full bass output level... so if you measure 75 dB at 100 Hz and 72 dB at 90 Hz, your crossover point should be the -3 dB point, or 90 Hz in this example. You want the subwoofer and main speakers to both reach their -3 dB point at 90 Hz in this example. If you have large-ish L&R speakers that reproduce solid bass down to 40 Hz and they measure -3 dB at 35 Hz, 35 Hz would make the best crossover point. And a crossover frequency that low means you will never know the difference between 1 and 2 subwoofers as long as the 1 subwoofer you do need can produce the SPL you want/need.

Sealed subs are best sounding for music, but they have the LEAST bottom-end extension. You get the least amount of distortion in the bass from a sealed box but you are unlikely to get much output below 20 Hz from a sealed subwoofer unless the box is quite large. Ported subs almost always will play louder and go deeper than sealed box designs of similar cost. But ported subs also have more distortion in bass frequencies. Many ported subs come with 1 or more port plugs that allow you to tune the subwoofer. Hsu Research subs, for example, have 2 ports. You get 2 closed-cell foam port plugs so you can operate the sub with both ports plugged for music, and open 1 or 2 ports for movies. Best of both worlds. Other manufacturers MAY (or not) offer that flexibility too.

How low to audio frequencies go in Movies? The disc of "The Edge of Tomorrow" (Tom Cruise, Emily Blunt) has a sound effect that begins before the Village Roadshow logo at the beginning of the movie fades out to the movie... it starts around 40 Hz and slides down to 10 Hz. Below 14 Hz or so, you hear nothing, but it feels like somebody turned a fan on... the subwoofer moves a HUGE amount of air at 10 Hz with no detectable sound. The subwoofer doing this in my room is a Hsu Research sub, the least expensive model having a 15-inch driver... the VTF-3 Mk5 HP (currently priced at $909 plus $110 shipping in satin black). This sub has 2 ports and 2 port plugs so it can be used as a sealed, 1-port, or 2-port sub just by inserting or removing the port plugs. The only question is whether the volume of your space needs 2 subwoofers or not. You can always try a single sub first to find out if the bass levels you want/need are OK for your space and add a second sub only if it feels like a single sub isn't filling the space adequately. Of course if your main speakers will need a crossover at 80 Hz or higher, and you want to maintain maximum stereo separation into the bass, you would need 2 subwoofers, each fairly close to one of the main speakers (within a couple of feet if possible). With a single subwoofer, if the crossover frequency is 60 Hz or lower (80 Hz in a pinch), you should place the subwoofer between the L&R speakers to prevent pulling the stereo image to the left or right with an off-center sub. A single sub can be farther back or even closer than the main speakers as long as it is equal distance to the L&R speakers. Some people deal with large space volumes by placing the subwoofer behind or beside the main seat. Using this placement, you can get stupendously loud bass from a single subwoofer. With placement close to the listener, you lose all the effects of room modes and you hear the most linear bass possible, much more linear than the bass would be with the subwoofer placed farther out into the room. You do have to use careful/precise level-matching between the subwoofer and main speakers so the bass doesn't sound overpowering at the listening position. In most cases, placing the subwoofer close to the seat or sofa you use will induce bass resonances into your sofa/chair further making the bass sound realistic as powerful bass in real life does the same thing... resonates/vibrates whatever you are sitting on.
Not sure that's good advice there.

I have never seen or heard any credible source suggest that the benefits of adding multiple subwoofers is contingent on the chosen crossover point. What the research I have read does say very clearly is that multiple subs provide a more even response in most rooms. And results from users in forums like this one generally support these conclusions in my experience.

And regarding the use of the manufacturer's specs and roll off point to set crossover points. This not only ignores the fact that real in-room speaker responses may differ significantly from manufacturer specs, but also ignores the fact that in most setups, taking some bass load off of your main speakers is likely to provide a benefit - no matter how large they are or how deep they go.

Bottom line is - multiple subs are almost always a benefit if you have the means to integrate them properly, and crossing over your big mains super low just because they are big is not necessarily a good idea.
 

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Not sure that's good advice there.

I have never seen or heard any credible source suggest that the benefits of adding multiple subwoofers is contingent on the chosen crossover point. What the research I have read does say very clearly is that multiple subs provide a more even response in most rooms. And results from users in forums like this one generally support these conclusions in my experience.

And regarding the use of the manufacturer's specs and roll off point to set crossover points. This not only ignores the fact that real in-room speaker responses may differ significantly from manufacturer specs, but also ignores the fact that in most setups, taking some bass load off of your main speakers is likely to provide a benefit - no matter how large they are or how deep they go.

Bottom line is - multiple subs are almost always a benefit if you have the means to integrate them properly, and crossing over your big mains super low just because they are big is not necessarily a good idea.
Well, it IS good advice whether you are sure or not. And whether or not you've read this anywhere else (very likely you haven't because people tend to not think things through as completely as I do/have. There are 2 things that control whether you should use 2 subwoofers or 1 subwoofer... the crossover point and the volume of the room. Bass becomes monophonic at frequencies below about 90 Hz (you have probably read 100 Hz, but I sat with a tone generator with 2 identical subs and could still experience stereo imaging down to right around 90 Hz before the direction of the sound became impossible to detect. When a subwoofer is in operation, it still reproduces sound above the crossover point, it's just down in level compared to the full range music or movie sound. An 80 Hz crossover produces a small but audible loss of stereo effect once you have heard the system with a 40-60 Hz crossover. You DO want the sub and main speakers to overlap for smooth bass response, so you should not try to use a super-strong crossover slope to minimize overlap as the transition from sub to main speakers can be too abrupt causing the bass to change character in the transition from sub to main speakers.
 

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I get how crossovers work - there is no need for you to explain.

But I think your responses are kind of missing the whole point of multiple subwoofers. It has nothing to do with localization of the source. Most people won't have an issue with localization at all if they cross at 100 hz or below, therefore, you see very few complaints about localization issues in forums like this one because - it's easy for even a novice to address with bass management in an AVR. What you do see however are TONS of complaints in forums like these about boominess in the bass and uneven loading of the room. This is the primary, and research confirmed advantage, of multiple subwoofers.

If you prefer a low crossover point - great. I have found that it works well sometimes too. But you can still get the advantages of multiple subs at a range of crossover points, room sizes, and volume levels. This is not about how well or at what point the subs cross to the mains.
 

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Using multiple subs DOES have benefits and drawbacks. I have intentionally not discussed. In addition, I have not discussed options you have with subwoofer placement. For most systems, the best placement is 1 in front and 1 in back of the room, equi-distant from the listening seat. If the crossover frequency is low enough you can put a sub in the front left of the room with the second one in the right rear of the room so that both deliver sound to the main seat at the same time without using delays to compensate for distance differences of the front vs. rear sub. This placement option (rather than having both subs in front on the left and right sides) is much more effective at removing room modes at the main seat than putting both subs in the front of the room. Just because I'm suggesting things you don't read all the time doesn't make them wrong, it makes them useful because others haven't done the work with subs. I spent DECADES with 1 and 2 subs developing guidelines that produce more consistent end results than the commong stuff you read everywhere. I don't "prefer" a lower crossover point, lower crossover points are NECESSARY if you are using a single subwoofer and you want to avoid any "pulling towards mono" sound in the frequency range from 90 Hz and higher by restricting how much 90 Hz and higher sound gets to the subwoofer. When you have 2 subwoofers and put both in front, higher crossovers will work fine, but by putting 1 sub in front and 1 in back, you can improve (in most cases) the linearity of bass response by positioning the 2 subs (front & rear) one at a time, then both working together for fine final tuning. Of course none of this is NECESSARY, it just gives better final results than most of what you've read elsewhere that's not complete in describing the details of placement and avoiding mono sound from developing sooner (in terms of low frequency response) if that's a desired goal.

A third placement option that's remarkably good in terrible rooms is to place the subwoofer just behind or beside the main seat so the main seat hears the direct bass before room modes get involved. And if the main speakers are small-ish and you HAVE to use a crossover in the 80-100 Hz range, just be aware. It's not the end of the world if you have to use a higher crossover frequency, but the BEST result is a low crossover with big main speakers that go down to 30 Hz or so on their own.
 
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