Ok drywall ceiling it is!

5121 Views 39 Replies 4 Participants Last post by the colors, May 19, 2010

the colors

Discussion Starter · Nov 10, 2009

In the off topic of the carpet thread that went into a tangen, I did some thinking and planning and realized that a drop ceiling would be more expensive than drywall one. So have to do some leveling of the exisiting joist which should be easy and only counted 3 hand holes that will have to go in for shut off valves. Now time to insulate!:T

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the colors

Discussion Starter · #21 · Nov 12, 2009

Well I did check out the Whisper clips for the Hat channel and most likely will be buying them.

onder: I did a little tinkering and designed my own set sort of. What I did was cut strips of EPDM rubber 1.5" wide by 4" long @ .25" thick and will install under the Hat channel to the floor joist's. Also I made EPDM washers to isolate the screw head from the Hat channel and a steel washer. So essentially the Hat Channel will have the ability to move ever so slightly. I know this is not a tested method but what do you think? I know it will be secure so the sky won't be falling.lol

Ted White

· #22 · Nov 12, 2009

The rubber isn't the significant component in the decoupled clip system. It's the ability of the Drywall Furring Channel to flex without being restrained by screws.

The system you describe will work equally well with or without the rubber pieces you cut, I'm afraid. This tconcept has been looked at a lot over the years, but does little to nothing. This is why you don't see it done.

the colors

Discussion Starter · #23 · Nov 12, 2009

I may not described it to good but I am going to pre drill the Hat Channel to allow the flexability so as it is not being crushed to the joist's by the screw head. I most likely will buy the clips but I may do this method in the laundry room were there is hard wood floor above and it is not over the HT area. I will get some pics together my wife has them somewhere.

Ted White

· #24 · Nov 12, 2009

You are going to pre-drill slots on all the joist attachment points? 2 per joist? That's 304 slots to cut for a 15 x 24 room. You will also have 2x the contact points with these contact points being more conductive.

the colors

Discussion Starter · #25 · Nov 12, 2009

Ted White said:
You are going to pre-drill slots on all the joist attachment points? 2 per joist? That's 304 slots to cut for a 15 x 24 room. You will also have 2x the contact points with these contact points being more conductive.

I see the logic now, THE CONTACT POINTS!. The clips use one and mine would be two. Yes I would be pre-drilling all the attachment points two per joist. See told ya I would be buying the clips Now need to do a better more accurate count and level out the joist's. Remember my house was built in 1913! nothing is level.:rofl2:

Ted White

· #26 · Nov 12, 2009

First of all, I admire your cleverness. It's logical to go down the road you have.

The whole system is made or broken based on on that Hat Channel. It's the weakest point in the drywall suspension. The thought of modifications to it scare me is all.

the colors

Discussion Starter · #27 · Nov 12, 2009

Ted White said:
First of all, I admire your cleverness. It's logical to go down the road you have.

The whole system is made or broken based on on that Hat Channel. It's the weakest point in the drywall suspension. The thought of modifications to it scare me is all.

Point taken, when I build somthing I tend to over engineer things..glue it and screw it mentality.:bigsmile: I just looked at those clips and they also have two contact points(Whisper Clips).Which ones do you prefer for ceilings?

Ted White

· #28 · Nov 12, 2009

Screwing the channel to the joists (with or without the rubber you mentioned) is creating a coupled system.

Inserting the channel into the clip array is creating a decoupled system. Much more lossy connection.

In a coupled system, much will be defined by the contact points, their quantity and role in conduction. In a decoupled system, the contacts are less of an issue, and results are determined by the degree of free-flex created by the 25 gauge channel and the essentially non-fastened attachment to the clip.

Clips are not categorized by ceiling clip vs. wall clip. The two piece clips available from many outlets have an advantage in the low frequencies. The Neoprene in the 2-piece clips act to damp the excursion of the components, as well as damp some of the vibration coming from clip components. This is why a two-piece clip tests better than a one piece clip.

There's a lot going on

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the colors

Discussion Starter · #29 · Nov 12, 2009

Thank you Sir for all of your help. Do you have sombody as a contact to order these clips from?

Ted White

· #30 · Nov 12, 2009

It's certainly no trouble at all. These are good and common questions. 1 person asks the question that dozens of others are wondering also. It's all very good.

You can follow the link in my signature for more information.

bbieger

· #31 · Nov 13, 2009

Ted is that your company? You have one of the best websites out there for sound proofing products! I was going to post a link to your site before I realized it was yours.

Unfortunately headroom in my theater is very limited so I decided not to go with a hat channel setup. But in interest of helping out Mr. the colors, I read in several places that incorrectly installing hat channel and sound clips has been the basis of many a lawsuit. i.E. people or contractors often screw it up. It seems about as straightforward as anything to me but can you shed some light on common mistakes that people make?

Lastly, I always wondered about the connection between the ceiling and wall sheet rock. Do you leave a little gap and then fill it with flexible acoustic sealant? It seems to me that if you mudded this corner joint you would reduce the amount of movement and thus attenuation of the clipped ceiling.

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Ted White

· #32 · Nov 13, 2009

Thanks for the kind words bb.

The most common lawsuits are with Resilient Channel, not clips. Res Channel is notorious at this point. The problem is that there is no standard for the manufacture of this product. No spec at all. So you're left to the whim of a steel bending company. Not the case with Drywall Furring Channel that the clips employ. The Drywall Furring Channel is specified by the Steel Stud Manufacturers Association.

I would recommend not leaving the gap, and keep the joints tight. Seal the second layer

the colors

Discussion Starter · #33 · Nov 13, 2009

I have to say I see some threads were the Hat Channel seems to be to thin. I get what you guys say about wanting the ceiling to be isolated from the joist but the guage steel that I see being used scares me to think that 2 layers of drywall will just stay there.:sweat: I am using a heavier guage steel it may not be what recomended as far as flex goes but it gives me piece of mind.
Before I order my clips I need to run all my wires first and really think about placement of speakers.

Ted White

· #34 · Nov 13, 2009

the colors said:
I have to say I see some threads were the Hat Channel seems to be to thin.

...but the guage steel that I see being used scares me to think that 2 layers of drywall will just stay there.:sweat: I am using a heavier guage steel it may not be what recomended as far as flex goes but it gives me piece of mind.

Fortunately, there are governing bodies that very formally test construction materials prior to making recommendations regarding best installation practices. The Steel Stud Manufacturers Association has tested and rated all things steel. Steel Studs, C-channel, etc. The 25 gauge Drywall Furring channel is rated for the load. It's what is spec'd by all clip manufacturers, here and abroad. Been used for a decade.

Going heavier on the furring channel will limit your results as you say. Not recommended at all. Not needed at all. If you feel the need to use 20 ga. channel, I'd skip the work and attach directly to the joists. Call it a day

the colors

Discussion Starter · #35 · Nov 13, 2009

When I get home from work I will see what guage the Hat Channel I have at home from a previous job I did. What I will do is measure it with a micrometer and post the thickness. Sorry for being a PITA but I just want to do it once and right.

Ted White

· #36 · Nov 13, 2009

Your questions and thoughts are good and reasonable. 1 person asks what 20 others are also asking themselves. It's all good.

the colors

Discussion Starter · #37 · Nov 13, 2009

I checked the thickness of the hat channel and it is 1/16" thick. Is this to thick?

Ted White

· #38 · Nov 14, 2009

That's some beefy steel!! That's not 25 gauge. http://www.soundproofingcompany.com/library/articles/furring_channel_with_resilient_sound_clips/

the colors

Discussion Starter · #39 · Nov 15, 2009

See told ya, when I build somthing it's allways overkill. This is a totally a new way for me in building methods so I am just hesitant in the flexibilty thats all. But one way to put it is if air plane wings were rigid in design they would break off!:gulp: So I guess the flexibilty is a good thing eh. I will be ordering them soon and I have to make a trip to get the proper hat channel. Again thanks for all your input it really helps when someone else knows what they are talking about.

the colors

Discussion Starter · #40 · May 19, 2010

Well I am just about done painting and getting ready for the carpet. It has been a long 5 years in this whole basement project and need to post my pics of what it took to get to this point. I would call this room a Living room/ viewing room due to other rooms coming off of it. But I did set it up for MY veiwing pleasure.

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