[Warpdrv]

Oh WOW! :yikes: That is quite impressive Patrick - no wonder Brandon told me I better bring earplugs! Those look amazing - can't wait to see them in person.

Hehehh They were a fun project and will stay with me for many many years...

My only problem is the Paradigm Sig S8's can't keep up with them, although they are beautiful and sound great, I may be making a move to Seaton Catalysts when the new towers are finished... Mark is going to bring me a set to try and see how I like them...

Looking forward to meeting you sir...

I think a lot of us here at the Shack think you should make up your mind already too lddude:Im not getting any younger LOL

LOL.....

I think he's doing it right.... he's still a ways off from having his theater room done, so I'll bet his timing becomes perfect in that respect...

 

[ALMFamily]

I wish I could have stayed longer to hear the Seatons set-up with Terry's subs - from the impressions that I read on the other forum, they really did well.

 

[Warpdrv]

I wish I could have stayed longer to hear the Seatons set-up with Terry's subs - from the impressions that I read on the other forum, they really did well.

I have heard the Cat's before and on music they were pretty smooth - I liked them quite a bit, I really need to get some more chair time in with them to get a better feel for them.... But for HT, I was completely blown away - one of the most amazing things I'd experienced was the Gun Fight Scene from "Open Range".... I felt like I got punched in the whole body by an explosion and the SQ was crystal clear in doing so.... Simply Mind Blowing....

They had them cranked so loud - it hurt, not cool... but it was also a medium sized closed room and impact was scary.... I like playing loud from time to time but that was too much even for me... My room is gynormous, open to everywhere - and is difficult to pressurize - which is why I went in the direction I did with my subs, now I got to get my speakers to catch up.... Ugh...

 

[tonyvdb]

LOL.....

I think he's doing it right.... he's still a ways off from having his theater room done, so I'll bet his timing becomes perfect in that respect...

I do fully agree, when I was shopping for my Main speakers back in 1990 I took weeks of auditioning before I settled on the Mission 765s I still currently use.

 

[bluemax_1]

Hi there, just a quick suggestion on another track you might wish to add to your music audition repertoire/list:
http://www.amazon.com/Sheffield-Drum-Track-Disc-Master/dp/B003JG93DC
Track 1 off that disc, Jim Keltner's improv on the drum kit is one of my must have's for speaker auditioning. I usually couple it with Track 2 as well to note the differences, but Track 1 is definitely my go to track for dynamics.

Yes, the price is a little on the high side for a CD, but it tests the attack and dynamics of a speaker/sound system like little else out there will. You've got material to check out the midrange and vocals (and that's crucial to me too, as I especially love the sound of female vocals), this track will test other aspects of the acoustic reproduction.

Simply put, on properly set up systems, this track sounds like a live drummer in front of you. It starts off with a little light cymbal work and you can pay attention to how clear the 'tings' sound, then the track moves through snare drums, toms, kick drums, Zildjian and Sabian cymbals and you can listen for the shimmer and the difference between the shimmer of the different cymbals. Jim also switches from sticks, to brushes, and mallets and you should clearly hear the differences.

The kick drums should have visceral impact and the other thing about the track is that good speakers will soundstage the whole kit. You should be able to distinctly place the cymbals, the different drums and toms and such with your eyes closed and you'll hear him play across the field from left to right and back again, even as he plays rimshots too.

Lesser setups won't be able to play the track loud as the transients in this track will cause those systems to distort and clip. You'll be able to hear how fast the attack is on speakers/setup, because lesser systems will be muddy, and the simple gauge is: does it sound like a live drummer in front of you? That part is easy for me as I had a college room mate who was a drummer and had his drum kit set up in the living room (I used to play around on them once in a while too, but never actually played in a band).

Although a system for music is a little more critical in refinement, it also depends on the kind of music one tends to listen to. Some setups are refined for certain types of music and have better detail, but are more 'polite' and may not keep up as well with the aggressive dynamics of HT or other types of music as they're just incapable of playing loud enough to handle the transient spikes with ease. A system that can handle the dynamics of the percussion in this track at volume will also handle the dynamics of that part of the HT experience with aplomb.

Cheers and good luck on the search/quest.


Max

 

[ALMFamily]

Thanks Max!

You know, one of the holes I thought I had in my list was a great percussion track. The only real one I have is the Blue Man Group track and it is not what I would consider true percussion instruments. Thanks for a great suggestion!

 

[kadijk]

I found that track on iTunes...I'm still not sure on the quality difference between CDs and iPods(and I certainly don't want to hijack this odyssey of yours), but it's $.99 and the cd is $6 ish.

 

[ALMFamily]

True - the price difference is pretty substantial. I did go ahead and make the plunge - I have noticed a difference in quality between the two formats (at least I think I hear one ) and I really have just begun to learn how to listen critically. I really did not have a great percussion track and this really filled a hole for me. I just wish I could have got it here before Monday for the Selah audition!

 

[bluemax_1]

True - the price difference is pretty substantial. I did go ahead and make the plunge - I have noticed a difference in quality between the two formats (at least I think I hear one ) and I really have just begun to learn how to listen critically. I really did not have a great percussion track and this really filled a hole for me. I just wish I could have got it here before Monday for the Selah audition!

That's one of the beautiful things about being an Amazon Prime member: $3.99 1-day shipping and Free 2-day shipping.

BTW, a little off-topic, but aside from paying the $6x.xx for the Prime membership from Amazon (great for folks who regularly purchase items from them) I heard of another way to get Prime membership. Not sure if it still works, but a friend told me that if you order more than $6x.xx worth of baby food/products, Amazon provided Prime membership free. He didn't have any kids, so he bought the stuff (at lower prices than most retail stores) for his friends with kids, LOL!

Biggest savings for me from Prime membership, free shipping for my second pair of Boston Acoustics E100 speakers from Amazon (great sounding speakers BTW! But unfortunately discontinued. Too expensive to make, and at $2500 EACH, they didn't sell well for BA, but I think they might be the best speakers BA has ever made). With the boxes measuring 77"x13"x13" and weighing over 100lbs, shipping for those would have cost a fortune.

If you could ever find a pair of those, you might consider auditioning them too. They pop up on audiogon or Craigslist once in a while at much lower than MSRP. Powered by the Emotiva XPA-1 500 watt monoblock amps I'm using, these puppies really sing. They're a fairy easy load at 89db/w/m sensitivity at 8 ohms, but providing them ample wattage REALLY makes them shine, and boy can they thump with the monoblocks!

I like 'em so much, I have a 7.1 set in the Black Walnut finish (E100's, E70's and E60's) and a 5.1 set in the Cherry finish (E100's and E70's) still new in the box waiting for me to install for 5.1 in the bedroom when I move.


Max

 

[Jungle Jack]

Max,
Those BA's are excellent Speakers. It is simply at that price point, most folks who spend that much on a pair of Speakers do not think of Boston Acoustics. A corollary in the Automotive World is/was the Volkswagen Phaeton which could sticker for over $100,000 with the W12.

Even though it was made on the same Chassis as the Bentley Continental/Silver Spur and Audi A8 and shared many other components with those vehicles, people (especially in the US) could not imagine spending that kind of money for a VW. The Phaeton also offers Draft Free Climate Control and the most comfortable Seats I have ever sat in. VW could not practically give them away when new. Regardless, you can find a used one at Auto Trader for between 13,000-30,000 Dollars now. While they have remained continuously in production in Europe, the Phaeton is amazingly returning to the US in the next year or so.

Forgive the somewhat off topic analogy, but it is still interesting to see when a company that usually makes more reasonably priced products goes for something more cost is no object and the issues of Brand Perception therein.
Cheers,
JJ

 

[bluemax_1]

Max,
Those BA's are excellent Speakers. It is simply at that price point, most folks who spend that much on a pair of Speakers do not think of Boston Acoustics. A corollary in the Automotive World is/was the Volkswagen Phaeton which could sticker for over $100,000 with the W12.

Even though it was made on the same Chassis as the Bentley Continental/Silver Spur and Audi A8 and shared many other components with those vehicles, people (especially in the US) could not imagine spending that kind of money for a VW. The Phaeton also offers Draft Free Climate Control and the most comfortable Seats I have ever sat in. VW could not practically give them away when new. Regardless, you can find a used one at Auto Trader for between 13,000-30,000 Dollars now. While they have remained continuously in production in Europe, the Phaeton is amazingly returning to the US in the next year or so.

Forgive the somewhat off topic analogy, but it is still interesting to see when a company that usually makes more reasonably priced products goes for something more cost is no object and the issues of Brand Perception therein.
Cheers,
JJ

That's a great analogy. Sad really, as it means folks end up missing out on a great product simply because they have a preconceived bias against it.


Max

 

[ALMFamily]

I stole this from Warpdrv's post on the other forum - it's the Selah array speaker we get to audition tomorrow!

 

[Warpdrv]

Weird thing about those - is the first few pics don't really give an idea of their size, they are tiny...

3ft tall at best.... I'm not betting they will do a huge job in pressurizing my room - hehehehe

But I am interested in the characteristics in dispersion...

 

[ALMFamily]

A really fun night - after attending the SE WI GTG a couple weeks ago and this one last night, I must say that there are some really great people who love this hobby. That is what has really stood out for me the most. Thanks again to Warpdrv for opening up his beautiful home - everyone should have a chance to hear his living room system. :yikes:

There were a couple different speakers I had a chance to listen to at the GTG so I am going to break them apart into separate posts so I am not up too late.

The first: The new offering from Rick Craig at Selah Audio (have not been named as of yet)

First off, I really liked the unique look of these speakers - definitely not your standard box! The finish on them was very well done as well - Rick stated that he has a local cabinetmaker that does the finishing. I did not play any of my standard audition tracks, but what struck my right off about these was the dispersion. I have not heard any line arrays before so I don't have a real good point of reference, but the size of the soundfield was astounding. The last picture I took was actually near the top of Warpdrv's staircase and there was no noticeable degradation in the soundfield. It was fairly wide as well - I was about 45 degrees off axis before I could detect just a slight decline in the sound. As far as their ability to disappear, I was having problems trying to focus on a point in space (as I would for a TV/screen) as I kept noticing all the drivers - that would take some getting used to IMO. That said, they imaged very well once I closed my eyes and were very detailed - both male and female vocals were clear with no distortion. The mids were very crisp as well and I felt rolled off well. I am not sure how loud we got, but I can say that I had to raise my voice to talk to the person sitting next to me at one point so I am certain they could handle more.

All in all - a really great speaker. Not quite as captivating as the Soundscapes for me personally, so in that price range I would go with the Salks, but kudos to Rick for building a great sounding speaker with a large soundfield.

Current MSRP is $12.5k, but IIRC Rick has an introductory price of $10.5k atm. I will be updating my living document with impressions and specs (when specs are posted to his site).

 

[Gregr]

I'm surprised you have no comment or a response to the Duel 18" LMS's "The XLERATORS" in the listening room with you. I see one of them in your bottom photo. These are two of the finest Subwoofers I've seen anywhere. If I had a need and a bigger room I would definately build something like that. Maybe I will make a pair of cabinets to put my Focal subs into. With some mod I could get them to reach lower by a few Hz's. Hmmm I'd never thought of that potential. I'm going to look into this.
The reason I am writing again @ 1:48am is in looking through your speaker list I noticed you have essentially given up on Martin Logan. If you go to Audio Advisor.com you could find the answer to your HT Audio. In-Wall, On-Wall, Big Electrostatics right up front. I have a friend who has filled me with electrostatic propaganda but I've found some of this to be true. Like, a huge soundstage image with each instrument in place. Large electrostatics fill a large room with sound like nothing else. When playing a live and well recorded disc (it can happen) it is easy to imagine you are there like nothing else I have heard. He once said electrostatics are the future and in 10years you will not be able to find the simple cone driver.
Talk with JJ about his system I think its Jungle Jack that has the Martin Logan setup. If you are not going to go with Focal, Dynaudio, or B&W then try ML at least.:bigsmile:




​

 

[ALMFamily]

I am actually planning on a separate post for the Xcelerators - stay tuned.

I actually still plan to listen to the CM9s - I just have been hard pressed for time lately since baseball started for my sons and I am coaching this year. As far as the MLs, I would like to give a set an audition - I just need to find somewhere I can do that. My local shop only has one set (unfortunately I can't remember which ones) and I got the feeling from talking to the owner that he might not cary MLs any longer.

TBH, I hve tried to find something within driving distance to be able to audition Focal and Dynaudio (other than the Xcite series), and I cannot seem to find anything.

 

[ALMFamily]

Next up from the Warpdrv GTG - the Xcelerators:

After we listened to the Soundscape 7s with the Funkywaves sub (more to come on that in a later post), I asked Warpdrv if he would not mind firing up his living room system. Now, he does have the Sig 8s in there which if I were listening to them alone, I would have been impressed as they were not as forward to me as the Studio 100s were, but TBH I think we were all really focused in on the subs. :innocent:

First off, the pictures do not do justice to them - at @3' tall they are truly imposing and the finish on them is very well done. If I did not know better, I would have thought it was some kind of tall end table. As far as the sound, I can honestly say I never thought that you could get a sub to get that loud, yet remain so clean - much less 3! He fired up a couple tracks and then put on a Metallic concert (Live from France IIRC). We were getting the kind of clean bass I would expect from a high end mid - I have to wonder if my jaw was dropped the whole time.

Warpdrv's living room is pretty open, but with those three going, it felt like he actually had buttkickers in the couch - I could feel it in my bones! :bigsmile: And, the real kicker - they never moved at all. He has a lamp on top of one and a vase on the other. You could see a picture moving on the wall, lights moving in the other room, but the lamp and vase never moved an iota - and we were really giving them a good workout. I wish I could have stayed a bit longer as they fired up Open Range and Master and Commander, but it was 10pm and I had to drive 1.5 hours home.

I have thought about doing a DIY sub project once the HT is a bit more in order, and I think I may have just got a good idea of what I would like to do....... I wonder if I could get the same effect using 2 of those LMS subs in a sonotube. :scratch:

 

[ALMFamily]

The last speaker I had a chance to hear - the Soundscape 7s:

Aesthetically, I really liked the finish on this speaker. It also had a bit more depth to it than what I would consider your standard box to have which was nice for a monitor. Interestingly enough, as soon as we started to listen to them, I felt that I could hear the similarity between these and the Soundscape 10s. So, obviously, I loved these.

Being monitors, they did not have the low end extension that the 10s did, but Warpdrv has a Funkywaves sub in his bedroom set-up (so lucky - my wife would disown me if I did that!) that handled the low end quite beautifully. They imaged incredibly well - they disappeared completely when I did my "eyes closed / focus on tv" test. Vocals - both male and female - were very detailed and dynamics were so clean.

I am set on doing towers for my HT as that appeals to me aesthetically. That said, if I ever get to the point where I would be setting up a 2.1 system specifically for music, these would be at the top of my list - for me personally, the Soundscape "sound" is incredibly engaging (turn of phrase borrowed from Nuance ) and at this point the type of sound I am looking for in my final choice - or as close to it as I can come within my budget.

 

[Warpdrv]

Fun times there my good man....

Hope the long drive was worth it.... its too bad that we waited so long to fire my systems up....

Seemed Rick only had one thing on his mind while he was there and that was to peddle his wares.... It was kinda strange to me that He not one time while at my place talked to me about any of my setups... zero interest in anything other then talking about his products.... thats too bad

Anyways, it was a blast, though gtg's at my house tend to get more obnoxious then normal gtg's. Especially when we have some real PERSONALITIES in the mix like my buddies Aaron, and Peter. LOL

 

[ALMFamily]

I had loads of fun Patrick - it was perfect to have a nice laid back GTG where we just shot the breeze and listened to some great speakers..

I kind of got that feeling to - which I suppose is the main reason he was there. He did ask me what speakers I was using which makes me wonder why he did not ask you about your systems with you hosting and all. Well, opportunity lost IMO.......

What I thought was cool is that you could tell Aaron was really into this - when he started talking about your bedroom system, he was really animated and into it. Awesome......